Makes Community Server look good. WTF?
Posts made by fennec
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RE: Finaly a Front page WTF worthy of the title
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RE: "Beta", eh? I can see that.
@morbiuswilters said:
@fennec said:
As a tangential follow-up, I just noticed this part. Google's new-maps may be a WTF in the UI, but this is scarily accurate:
True, but you could say that about every BART station.
Naah, the only ones that are really useful for getting to Pier 39 are Powell (for the cable car transfer) and Embarcadero (for the F).
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RE: "Beta", eh? I can see that.
As a tangential follow-up, I just noticed this part. Google's new-maps may be a WTF in the UI, but this is scarily accurate:
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"Beta", eh? I can see that.
It's Ulaxi! It's a site to help you compare your options for getting somewhere: Uber, Lyft, or taxi. Leaving aside the obvious WTFs (like the name), we see this software is in beta and limited to San Francisco only. Okay, let's try an easy query: Market and Powell to SFO. Notwithstanding that this would usually be a BART trip.
That's ... interesting, I guess. Maybe I can poke it a little, make it work better.
.... There we go, I fixed it! -
RE: More Java installer crap
@delta534 said:
Rule one with java, always get the installer from this page get the installer from this page.
(by the way, that magnificent job of overlaying white background labels on top of a grey dialog is Oracle's all the way - it's not an artefact of the screen-grab) It looks like you have your DPI set larger than normal. It's amazing how many companies don't bother testing for that. Or do it in a half-assed way (like Chrome's "we only do 100% or 200% DPI, so if you set it to 150% we'll make it fucking huge!"*) Or go out of their way to break it entirely, like Steam used to do. (You still can't fucking change the font size in Steam IM windows!!!!! It's been a DECADE NOW!) *) To be fair to Chrome, they did fix it in a reasonable amount of time once 13" 1080p laptops like mine hit the market. It still brings out the, "you mean you didn't have DPI scaling at all from fucking version ONE!?!?!" shock and surprise, though. Do people writing software even USE computers? How could you be a web browser programmer and not know that the DPI can change? Fuck, CSS pretty much RELIES on that! /rant
I cannot agree more with this rant with the addition of buttons and options getting cut off because my DPI is at 125%.
I see what you did there. (I wonder what that says about my own DPI settings...)
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RE: Scalability irony
@boomzilla said:
@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
Is there a name for the mental illness displayed here, i.e. "the website for a thing is bad, therefore the thing itself is bad?" The most obvious example being Obamacare in the US, but here's another one.
It's more a misplaced case of doogfooding, I believe.
I don't think ebay is required or expected to host their tech blog on the same server system they use for the products and users.
Indeed. I'd go with illiteracy, since that's not what fennec's saying. In fact, just the opposite, which was, why don't they use their apparently useful product to prevent the website about the tech behind the website from sucking? I'd agree that it's probably not as suitable for their blog as for their main business, but it's a good enough fit to earn a chuckle. Isn't this supposed to be some sort of humor site? Why do people go and try to ruin that?
Ah. That would be on account of a mental illness named "Blakeyrat", which is a specific type of the illness "know-it-all anti-social jerk". In a non-WTF community, he would have been kicked out and banned months ago. :P
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Scalability irony
Right, so, this was on Hacker News today.
Apparently they don't use equivalent software on their blog.....
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RE: I sense a mouse
@blakeyrat said:
@joe.edwards said:
Intellisense is a convenience (a damn nice one, but a convenience still). If you're completely unable to develop without it, perhaps you should work on your core competencies as a developer.
Bullshit. The resource that limits development productivity is memory. ANY memory aid is a huge boost to productivity.
BTW, this OP is how you gripe about Microsoft.
It's not just a memory-aid, it's a typing aid. Even a simple "tab complete strings which are already present in files loaded into memory" is a wonderful thing to have.
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RE: MinGW
@blakeyrat said:
@joe.edwards said:
That is a correct assumption; though, by this point, I'm thinking Blakeyrat was right and it's not worth the headache.
Blakeyrat is always right.
Aha. So Blakeyrat is Wikipedia.
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Loops in JavaScript are okay. JavaScript in loops is not okay.
Here's a representative snippet of the internal app driving an Important Ongoing Interactive Business Process that I'm gradually rewriting to support new business units. This is in HTML::Mason, which is sort of like PHP or .erb for Perl, and in many cases would be TRWTF. But today,
data serialization/initialization is the name of the game.<script type="text/javascript"> <% $js_releases_array_name |h %>[<% $id |n %>] = Array(); % for my $release (@associated_releases) { <% $js_releases_array_name |h %>[<% $id |n %>].push('<% $release->{url} |n %>'); % } </script>
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RE: Subclasses in python: nailed it
@Ben L. said:
@fennec said:
@Vanders said:
You could do monkey patching at runtime.
Perl calls it Test::Resub. Ruby has Test::Redef. Both are quite handy for simple things, though of course for big serious things you'd do well to consider dependency-injection of mock objects et cetera.
Test::Redef is not a part of Test::Unit and wholly compatible with any testing framework. Your argument is valid, but irrelephant.
And mock objects are useful, but fulfill a different role than redef/resub (which mock out method calls on existing classes instead of new ones).
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RE: Subclasses in python: nailed it
@Vanders said:
You could do monkey patching at runtime.
Perl calls it Test::Resub. Ruby has Test::Redef. Both are quite handy for simple things, though of course for big serious things you'd do well to consider dependency-injection of mock objects et cetera.
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RE: Blakeyrant on another site - indie game To The Moon
As usual, even insofar as he manages to be right about things from time to time, Blakeyrat is the real WTF.
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RE: New Arrival! Farscape is now on Netflix
@blakeyrat said:
Special Bonus WTF #2: They still don't have the "Peacekeeper Wars" movie, and season 4 of Farscape ends on a cliffhanger. So, all these years later, I still can't see how it all ends!
IIRC the first thing that happens in the ending is that the dude and the lady in the boat get exploded by a passing aircraft. BOOM! Then a sea monster eats their unborn child. Hilarity ensues. Finally, at the exciting climax, a sniper kills Dumbledore. -
PARADE!! (continued) (in a new thread because the Monty Hall problem is boring once you've figured it out)
So my previous post on the parade has turned into a Monty Hall problem discussion (WTF 1), I thought I'd revisit why exactly the Macy's parade website was b0rked (WTF 0), because it's interesting. See, in addition to the N bands/floats/baloons etc, each category has two extra broken thumbnail images. If you click on the thumbnails and inspect the URLs, you see things like the following:
- http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl-_-parade-_-n-_-n#/lineup/bands/1
- http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl-_-parade-_-n-_-n#/lineup/bands/2
- ...
- http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl-_-parade-_-n-_-n#/lineup/bands/11
- http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl-_-parade-_-n-_-n#/lineup/bands/unique
- http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl-_-parade-_-n-_-n#/lineup/bands/remove
Someone has been using a Javascript
for (x in object)
loop to walk the object, except some javascript plugin has added methods unique and remove to their arrays, resulting in two nonsense fields being added to the page. An easy mistake to make, but, nice QA job on that, guys (WTF -1). Anyway. That's JavaScript for you! (WTF undefined. or is it null? i keep getting those mixed up in JavaScript.)The real explanation bethind NaN baloons, however, is because they're likely to cancel the balloons this year for safety reasons (due to the 30 mph+ wind gusts which are forecast). And obviously 0 bicycles is because no one would bike in the cold, rainy weather! Happy hanukah.
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PARADE!
So I hear there's going to be A Parade in a week in the vicinity of Cairo. So I thought I'd look it up, and found interesting information about this-here marching-band.
http://social.macys.com/parade/?cm_mmc=VanityUrl--parade--n-_-n#/lineup/bands/remove:
anyway the real WTF is the flash animation of the truck shaking (or whatever that's supposed to be) and that stupid taxicab
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Manhattan. Now a suburb of Cairo.
So Facebook has some notion of where I've been, which I think is mostly from Instagram federation. Sure, whatever. It has an interesting idea of the geography, though.
(Postscript. Before anyone starts making fun of the neighborhood being the real WTF, that icon with the house is not where I live. :P)
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This is why we have super-a r s bound to (insert-random-string)
Found while grepping around some testfiles.
www/api/07_submit_metadata.t:# $multiple_upload_metadata->{$upload_id}->{description} = 'Once upon a time there lived a beautiful princess named Iris Princess Iris spent her days riding her golden horse through the lush forests and deep gorges of her fathers vast kingdom One day Iris was swimming in a pool beneath a waterfall Her steed the fish in the stream and the birds in the trees were her only company But on that day a noisy old hag emerged from the forest and chose to make herself an unwelcome guest amidst this quiet company Beautiful girl the hag shouted at Iris from the shore Iris brushed her long blonde hair away from her face and turned to look at the old woman Go on respond in kind the woman said Say what you are thinking Or do not say it Either will do just fine as you are thinking so loud I can hear it from here thinking that I am an ugly old woman';
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RE: New-Google-Maps is, in fact, the real WTF
@Nexzus said:
Grand Central Terminal is the subway station, and Grand Central Station is a post office, correct?
Well, my interface had it as a "transit hub" and "architectural landmark" (with link to a collection of impressive photos of facades with clocks and angels, statues of Vanderbilt, constellation-ceilings, etc). Nothing about postal services.Anyway, really Grand Central Terminal is more of a commuter railroad station than a subway station. I mean, sure the trains come in via a tunnel, but most of Metro North (and the future Long Island Railroad access) is trackway that's above ground. And sure, there are also subway trains at Grand Central Terminal: the Lexington Avenue Line, Flushing line (via the Steinway Tube), and the Times Square Shuttle. (All old Lexington Avenue Line trains, interestingly enough.) But I do believe that the train station predates those, and is the reason that said subway lines were built to the location to begin with. I've seen the historical maps.
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RE: New-Google-Maps is, in fact, the real WTF
@Lorne Kates said:
@fennec said:
Ladies and gentlemen, Grand Central Terminal. And by "central", I mean "Astoria".
Google is not wrong. Google UI is the best. The world is wrong.
CLOSED: PHYSICALLY MOVED GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL TO ASTORIA
In fairness this would have made the East Side Access project significantly cheaper than the current ~$8.24 billion. -
RE: New-Google-Maps is, in fact, the real WTF
@dkf said:
@El_Heffe said:
@fennec said:
How does one find Astoria?I've got a browser that's set to use new-Gmaps
How does someone find this "new" Google maps?
Queens-bound N train, essentially. -
RE: New-Google-Maps is, in fact, the real WTF
@TarquinWJ said:
@El_Heffe said:
type "grand central terminal", I get the correct location.
Same here, but at the location on the real map shown in the screenshot in the OP's post, it says "grand central station" not "grand central terminal". I can see this in Astoria, in the location shown by the OP. Street view shows someone's garage at that location, so there's still something screwy going on.
Actually, it says Grand Central Station until you click on it, and THEN it says Grand Central Terminal. -
RE: New-Google-Maps is, in fact, the real WTF
@lushr said:
My version of the new gmaps gets it right, as well.
Interesting. Still broken for me. Of course, I've got a browser that's set to use new-Gmaps by default (another WTF) and I navigated over to Queens manually and just discovered it there (the search and the directions work fine). -
RE: Microsoft announces shut down product you never heard of
I'd heard of Tag. Hadn't heard of anyone using Tag, mind you...
Three cheers for the QR code, which at least doesn't require Microsoft or a similar entity to maintain servers in order to work.
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Reverse mystery-meat navigation
As far as web design is concerned, church websites are their own special brand of cautionary tale, but this is the first time I've seen reverse-Mystery-Meat navigation like this.
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RE: Goddamit, Gmail
@Ronald said:
On one of my laptops I have mistakenly agreed to use the new Google Maps. Not only is this new version slow as shit, things that were pretty convenient are now either hidden or broken (like: search nearby). My theory is that Google is dumbing down everything so they can easily convert Apple users.
Oh, yes, new-Maps.
So... I can find the bicycle map overlay for new-Maps.
And I can ask for bicycle directions.Can I get bicycle directions on the bicycle map proper?
I can display the transit overlay on new-Maps. I can search for a street address on new-Maps. Any chance I could get a location marker on top of the transit map?
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RE: Apparently Tesla is run by crazy people
@eViLegion said:
@Snooder said:
Actually, thinking about this a bit more, I wonder if the CEO's statement was prompted by the news stories about the kinect not identifying black people.
It's not Microsoft's fault if some people go around absorbing all the visible light, and reflecting none of it.
Edit: on a more serious note, I have narrowly avoided running down black people in the car, when they've been wearing jet-black clothing at night, having been completely unable to see them until almost the last second. Now, does it make me racist if I think their choice of attire was potentially dangerous?I'll see your "at night" and raise you riding a bicycle, on the sidewalk, on the left-hand side of the street behind a row of parked cars, and dashing out into intersections between minor side-streets and the main road at bicycle-speeds and not a hint of slowing down. With no lights, obviously, and definitely no helmet.
Now, the white guy I almost ran over were doing the same thing at the bottom of a steep hill, but it was daytime. -
RE: My state has gone insane
@Snooder said:
@fennec said:
@dkf said:
@eViLegion said:
That money would otherwise be available to be paid as salary if the employer didn't have to make such a silly contribution.
If you believe it would actually be paid as salary to the employee, I've got this nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you. (The headline rate of what you're paid doesn't matter; what matters is how much you've got to actually pay for things, i.e., your net pay.)Well, the tax comes out of the middle, so exactly who pays for it is actually dependent on the relative price elasticities of the supply and demand curves for the labor in question. This would be different between different sectors and different types of employee, and dependent on general labor market conditions. Regardless, there's a deadweight loss, and less economic output overall as a result of the tax. That's just basic Science.
It depends on what the tax money is used for.
For example, a large part of the current economic prosperity in the US is due to our excellent research universities driving innovation. Where does the money for this research come from? From taxes. Would the US have a greater economic output with less taxes and no research? Almost certainly not.There may be a gain to society from the tax dollars being spent, yes. Sometimes the gain will be larger than the various losses which have collected the relevant tax revenues to pay for it. Sometimes it will be smaller. The politicians proposing the program and taxes to support it will, of course, always pitch it as a net benefit to society, regardless. :)
The real fun is when the gain to society is small but concentrated, and the loss is large but spread out across a large population. This is when it is profitable for the special-interest group of the week to lobby for the spending. Because transaction costs for engaging in politics are large and barriers to entry exist (look at all the regulations, whee!) freedom to engage in the market for political activity does not actually make it efficient. :)
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RE: My state has gone insane
@dkf said:
@eViLegion said:
That money would otherwise be available to be paid as salary if the employer didn't have to make such a silly contribution.
If you believe it would actually be paid as salary to the employee, I've got this nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you. (The headline rate of what you're paid doesn't matter; what matters is how much you've got to actually pay for things, i.e., your net pay.)Well, the tax comes out of the middle, so exactly who pays for it is actually dependent on the relative price elasticities of the supply and demand curves for the labor in question. This would be different between different sectors and different types of employee, and dependent on general labor market conditions. Regardless, there's a deadweight loss, and less economic output overall as a result of the tax. That's just basic Science.
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RE: My state has gone insane
@eViLegion said:
@Buttembly Coder said:
@eViLegion said:
@Buttembly Coder said:
You just made an excellent argument to tax starvation.
Not exactly a richly rewarding revenue stream.
And yet, by most GovLogik, it makes sense! Starving is bad, so levy a heavy tax against it.
I like it... lets tax poverty, ignorance and ineptitude, and the world will become a fairer place!
It's called the lottery.
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RE: Line numbers... in 2002
@morbiuswilters said:
@Cat said:
A jump table is really primarily an assembly language structure, but to get the same functionality in VB, you actually do need to use computed gotos to get the same behavior. I don't believe VB6 will generate jump tables from a switch statement; at least I've not seen that behavior in other languages that permit non-constant case expressions. Sure, in theory the compiler could be smart enough to identify when all case expressions were known at runtime and dense, and choose a jump table, but you're giving a lot of credit to the people who came up with a language like VB6 in the first place.
So basically this is a stupid way to force a pointless low-level optimization in Basic. Gotcha.
Well. It's not pointless, if you're on a truly-ancient dialect of BASIC, it's more like "the only tool you have to do something vaguely-like-unto a function pointer". And if you're on such an ancient system with an ancient dialect, don't discount the occasional optimization technique; you don't know how long that array of if-else statements is going to take to run, even if you have a state-of-the-art 8 Mhz processor (in turbo mode).
Now, if you tried anything resembling that in anything resembling a modern programming language on modern hardware, that's another story.
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RE: Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
@blakeyrat said:
The point was, the link was provided to me as "evidence" that Git ships with a GUI diagram-creation tool. There's nothing on the link that says what the file involved does (and it seems to assume you already knew what it did before reading the link.)
'I can't expend the effort to pick out the words "gitk is really quite incredibly cool, and is great for visualizing what is going on in a git repository" with a diff adding likes to the file "gitk" authored by Linus Torvalds, presented on a page labeled "git/git". However, I can expend the effort to whine about it.'So the link is useless to me as evidence that Git ships with a diagram-creation tool.
I think you just like whining and excuses to whine. :)
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RE: Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
@dhromed said:
Unless Linus is confused about how to use English verbs and present/past tense, and "Do a cross-project merge of Paul Mackerras' gitk visualizer" is supposed to mean "Did a cross-project merge of Paul Mackerras' gitk visualizer". And then added a lot of pointless text that should have gone on some dicussion board.
Yeah, this is more or less canonical git commit message style, which I believe was summarized in its most canonical format in 2008: using the imperative.
You end up with a sequence of commit summaries which combine together like a sequence of commands... "Do this. Add this. Change that. Merge the other thing. Fix bug." It is a style. It has its advantages and disadvantages.
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RE: Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
@fennec said:
@The_Assimilator said:
1. If you're using the commandline to view a workflow graph, you're doing it wrong.
I have tools to view a commit history graph in a similar way, this just happens to be one compelling way to present the hilarious and impenetrable level of complication present in this portion of the commit history. Git's ASCII art view is far more compelling when the graph more closely approximates a straight line. :P
Also, I have to expend effort to anonymize some visualizations. e.g. here. But here we go! Github version of a hilarious graph.
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RE: Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
@MiffTheFox said:
I made changes to a binary file that was changed on another system and PCP'd*, the committed without pulling first, thus creating an anonymous branch. I couldn't pull back from the master after that since the branches couldn't be merged, as it failed with some unhelpful error the text of which was lost to the mists of time. I couldn't tell it to either toss out my changed file and just use the one from the other branch, nor could I tell it to toss out the entire branch and replace it with the latest from the master, save for just deleting the entire local repository and cloning up a fresh copy from the master.
(I got $5 down that you don't even have a master branch.)
* Pull/Commit/Push
If I understand you right, that's not too hard. Give your HEAD with the favored commit a name for convenience (git checkout -b temp). Reset your other branch (git checkout master; git fetch; git reset --hard origin/master) (I'm assuming you're working on master and your organization's canonical repo is named origin). Now you're on your main master, you can say something like "git merge --strategy=theirs temp" to copy what you have on temp and overwrite what you have on master. When you're done, push, and git branch -d temp (delete the temporary branch).
Not that git is intuitive or anything, but it's certainly capable of doing what you wanted. Not even that hard ;) if you want REAL trickiness, ask me how to merge two repositories with no history in common whatsoever. Consider Stack Overflow next time if you're having trouble? :D
Also, you didn't create an anonymous branch, theoretically; your branch is named 'master'... it's just your local edition of 'master', as opposed to origin/master. You could think of it as miffthefox/master? (If someone added your machine as a remote named 'miffthefox', that's what they'd see.)
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RE: Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
@The_Assimilator said:
1. If you're using the commandline to view a workflow graph, you're doing it wrong.
I have tools to view a commit history graph in a similar way, this just happens to be one compelling way to present the hilarious and impenetrable level of complication present in this portion of the commit history. Git's ASCII art view is far more compelling when the graph more closely approximates a straight line. :P
The codebase in question actually does have way too many people working on it at once, and it should be multiple repositories of encapsulated unrelated components managed by unrelated teams, and that is happening... gradually, of course, but in a few years it may be an eminently well-organized series of codebase with a really nice architecture. In the meantime, though, the homegrown workflow-management tools used to manage "too many people working on it at once" also make the history graph approximately, oh, twice as hard to track, I think? :)
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Something tells me that this git workflow is not very idiomatic
From
git log --graph --oneline --color
:
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RE: Excel clears undo stack in AutoRecover.
@Tae Wong said:
No more nonsense. It should be an discussion thread with no more nonsense. Excel XP clears the undo stack with AutoRecover.
Blunt frippers intantly to pointed bdelluroid. Purgent. Cost.
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RE: Legenderror'd
@blakeyrat said:
@MiffTheFox said:
Hearing people say bad stuff about LoL has put me off from wanting to try any DotA sequel. (Of which there are at least three by completely separate developers, wtf?)
DOTA2 is inscrutable and full of assholes.
But I never played the original DOTA, so maybe they're all inscrutable to me, I dunno. The assholes are inexcusable though.
This guy has an explanation: the game mechanics are not just different than what anyone normal is used to, but moreover are structured such that n00bs are not just worthless on the team, but their existence is massive liability which actively contributes to the enemy's victory. Frustration, anger, yelling, and abuse all ensue.
(Explanation, not excuse.)
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RE: MTA.info
@Zemm said:
Now I want to make a little web toy to generate subway-line sentences. Alas, not all letters are available, like U and K.
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RE: MTA.info
@ToiletDuck64 said:
Filed under: ⑨
No, no, they don't run the ⑨ anymore. It's been replaced entirely with the ①. -
RE: MTA.info
@SamC said:
Did anyone else catch the accessibility links at the top?
This is the most brillant feature I've ever scene. -
MTA.info
First, here's some fun. There was a water main break today at 23rd Street Station. Cool video.
Okay, so, it would be nice to share information about this, and train reroutings. Here's how sharing information works.
- Go to mta.info on a weekday (except Friday afternoon) and click on the NQR - Service Change status item. How about if I want to link someone to this page? Well, actually, clicking on the NQR was an HTTP POST to http://mta.info/status/serviceStatus.html with parameters
lineName=NQR&mode=Subways
. So if you reload the page or link someone to it, it'll give you information about the 1 train. Now, since I'm smart, I could just link them to the same page as an HTTP GET, but let's assume you're not a web developer. - Okay, so, you can't share the link. Now what? Well, we could copy and paste the service change message. Unfortunately, the pretty little subway line circles are images without ALT tags. So what you copy and paste this block
@MTA original said:
you get something like @MTA copy-and-paste said:trains are running on the line in both directions between 36 St Station (Qns) and 47-50 Sts/Rockefeller Ctr, then run on the line in both directions between and 47-50 Sts/Rockefeller Station and DeKalb Av Station.
trains are running on the line in both directions between 36 St Station (Qns) and 47-50 Sts/Rockefeller Ctr, then run on the line in both directions between and 47-50 Sts/Rockefeller Station and DeKalb Av Station.
Brillant! - Some time on Friday afternoon the mta.info site changes to take you to the Weekender instead, which will tell you all about the planned closures on Saturday and Sunday but nothing about the unplanned closures this evening. You'll have to click through to find that stuff.
- Bonus points: If there are long-term service changes (e.g. South Ferry station is supposed to be out of service for over a year because of the hurricane) then they'll show up on MTA.info the same way as unexpected service changes like this. So if this had affected the (1)(2)(3) lines instead of the (N)(Q)(R), you wouldn't have noticed any change to the service-status page at all. Bravo.
- Double-bonus points: The 'submit feedback' form results page (named msg.php) tells me that my case number is \'130201-000XXX\' (that is a literal backslash followed by a literal quote). I can only assume that they've messed up PHP Magic Quotes. What security vulnerabilities could possibly lurk on this site, I wonder?
- Go to mta.info on a weekday (except Friday afternoon) and click on the NQR - Service Change status item. How about if I want to link someone to this page? Well, actually, clicking on the NQR was an HTTP POST to http://mta.info/status/serviceStatus.html with parameters
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RE: Emergency. Giant crack in the basement. Evacuate!
I'm presently in an office in lower Manhattan on the 34th floor. We just got our grid power back on Monday. Yes, it's been out since November. It's been temporary offices and flaky Diesel generators in the meantime. Let's just say there have been about, oh, four? occasions on which I've had the opportunity to sing "34 bottles of beer on the wall" on the way downstairs, one of them in a dark stairwell, which was fun. Seriously got to work on my quads there for a while.