Up till yesterday, I've had few problems with my ISP, but this one really made me go "wtf". A short introduction may be required, so here goes.

Over here in Belgium there are basically only two big ISPs. One for the cable (Telenet), one over telephone - ADSL, VDSL and the likes (Belgacom). There are some smaller companies but AFAIK they lease the infrastructure from either Telenet or Belgacom so there you go. As a result we have rediculous prices and a cap on our data-transfer-limit. To give an idea, the cheapest Telenet offers is €20/month. What do you get? 1 Mbps and 1 gig of transfer per month. Yes, that's right, you can only download and upload a total of 1 gigabyte per month. Cross the limit and pay (€1/gigabyte) or surf at the lighting speed of smallband (basically capped at 56k). That's a WTF right there.

Anyway, to measure how much you've downloaded or uploaded Telenet uses a wonderful mechanism called the "Telemeter". Which has the...interesting property of notifying you when you reach a certain percentage of your transfer limit. How? By redirect *all* your HTTP traffic to their "Reminder page" until you confirm you saw it (or, if you've reached 100% of your limit, buy extra blocks). So if you're downloading a large file through HTTP (because no decent alternatives are available such as FTP, which happens way to often) and happen to cross a boundry...download corrupt! IMHO, that's WTF #2 right there.

 Everything came nicely together yesterday though. They were updating the "Telemeter" and we happened to cross 90%. Somehow the system could detect that (despite the meter being down), but we couldn't confirm we saw the warning and wanted to browse on...because the meter was down. The really helpful page said (translated): "Because of a problem with the Telemeter, you can not browse the internet. It's possible that other applications, such as e-mail, continue to work. We apologize for the inconvenience, and if the problem exists contact our Customer Service." What did customer service tell us? "The updates will last until 20.00 (another 8 hrs at that point). Have a nice day. *click*." Right. Anyway, at 22.00 the bloody thing is still down (I could use MSN and other people confirmed they couldn't log in to check their "Telemeter", so that's obviously the cause). At about 22.30 a message appeared that the updates would take until 1.00 (not 13.00) the next day.

 So I gave up and went to bed, only to find this morning (at about 10.00) that the reminder page was working, but I couldn't confirm I wanted to browse on. I got another error when confirming. I then called the helpdesk again and well...let's say it wasn't the friendliest conversation from my part. But half an our later, it was working.

 

Anyway...not foreseeing this problem could occur, when it does offer *no* support whatsoever (yes, it's not working, have a nice day?), not updating estimates when they are way of, and still managing to screw things up when the system was 'updated'. Oh, and they have two Customer Relation numbers: 015 666 666 and 070 69 69 69. Not kidding.

So... I'm wondering... how much would it cost for unlimited access in Belgium.. if that is even an option?

Here in Slovenia, the 100/100Mb fiber with unlimited transfer (we don't have any limits on any inet access type)  would be 100€/month.  The ADLS 1Mb/256 is 14€/month.

DarkAngl:

So... I'm wondering... how much would it cost for unlimited access in Belgium.. if that is even an option?

Here in Slovenia, the 100/100Mb fiber with unlimited transfer (we don't have any limits on any inet access type)  would be 100€/month.  The ADLS 1Mb/256 is 14€/month.

 

Are you running a secret underground lair with 10000 random henchmen all using the internet? here in the US 30 bucks a month gives you unlimited internet. I reached 1200kbps down 60 kbps up during my browsing with Optimum Online.

Can you use FTP and such without being capped if you don't touch your webbrowser after crossing the limit? If yes, I recomend getting VPN tunnel from somewhere (be it own dedicated, VPS or buying Relakks or similar service) and route everything thru it =)

dlikhten:

here in the US 30 bucks a month gives you unlimited internet.

 

I'm shocked that Belgium has such a sorry state of internet access, especially considering how well most other EU countries are doing. I've only ever heard of transfer limits from people down under. In Germany the situation has improved quite a bit the last few years, it's now easy to get 6 MBps and no transfer limits for a reasonable amount of money.

I think your statement about the US is very optimistic though.In _some_ metropolitan areas that may be true, but in most places across the country the sitation is either dialup, 256 kBit/s "dsl" for $100, bundled with (sattelite) TV and phone, or about the same for cable (phone/internet/tv.) Infrastructure and competition are really pathetic in most areas.  

Buzer:

Can you use FTP and such without being capped if you don't touch your webbrowser after crossing the limit? If yes, I recomend getting VPN tunnel from somewhere (be it own dedicated, VPS or buying Relakks or similar service) and route everything thru it =)

 

 No. The meter measures everything, but only your HTTP traffic is thoughtfully 'redirected'. If you ignore your browser I believe everything else automatically switches to snail speed. There is no such thing as "unlimited". See also: http://telenet.be/219/0/1/en/residential/internet.html IMHO those prices are a disgrace compared to our neighbouring countries...

There are a few relatively new ISPs that offer 'unlimited' (FUP I imagine) transfer but IIRC they don't own the infrastructure, but are leasing it from Belgacom or Telenet. So it's only a matter of time before they either collapse under their own popularity or are just pushed out of the market. Besides, they are not available everywhere.

Interestingly enough, the recent ITIF broadband rankings place Belgium at  #11, Germany at #18, Australia at #14, New Zealand at #22, with the first few spots claimed by Korea, Japan, Iceland, Finland.

I'm surprised that Belgium was ranked higher, and I'm especially surprised by Australia, from where I've heard nothing but horror storries. 

The Netherlands are up there at #4, so maybe you should just move across the border :)

http://www.itif.org/files/BroadbandRankings.pdf 

 My apologies. The PDF is a year old. The latest report is here: http://www.itif.org/files/2008BBRankings.pdf

Belgium dropped to #17, right behind Germany at #16. Australia is still at a surprising #12 and the USA are #15.

 Maybe its time for Belgium to privatise its national telecom champion and liberalise the telecom market? I was thinking that telecom market liberalisation is now required in all EU countries.

Just for comparison:

Hungary: 8Mb/512kb unlimited plan ~ 43 euros or 34 gbp or 66 usd
UK: 8Mb/1.3Mb unlimited plan ~ 18 euros or 14 gbp or 27 usd

Similar situation in Australia - An enormous encumbant telco with a real monopoly working hard to limit telecomunications to the bare minimum.

Unlimited internet does not exist, and it won't exist in the US for much longer. Prices generally are around $10/GB, with good providers charging $4 to $6. Useable plans start around the $50 mark, although cheaper plans do exist they generaly are of the 256kbpb/800MB/$100+/GB variety - ie, we'll moake our profits when you use it.

The encumbant monopoly charges $150/GB.There are some real amusing things available, though: Data through your mobile used to be charged at $15,000/GB, although just recently they quietly changed it to $2000. Pay them at least $59 a month and they will drop that to $250/GB. But that is as good as it gets.

 

 

robbak:

Similar situation in Australia - An enormous encumbant telco with a real monopoly working hard to limit telecomunications to the bare minimum.

Unlimited internet does not exist, and it won't exist in the US for much longer. Prices generally are around $10/GB, with good providers charging $4 to $6. Useable plans start around the $50 mark, although cheaper plans do exist they generaly are of the 256kbpb/800MB/$100+/GB variety - ie, we'll moake our profits when you use it. 

 

Im in the center of Sydney (as in "6km from the center of the CBD" center) and because of said encumbant, I can't get anything faster than 56k via the cabling in my area (400 apartments trying to share one copper line is not fun)... We tried to petition them to upgrade the infrastructure, but as if that ever works...

 The only decent access I can get is 512kbit/s with a 4GB cap for $70/month via the mobile phone network! Even with this rediculous pricing, my ISP rings me up and threaten sto disconnect me when I go over the cap by 80MB (even though they've already dropped my speeds to 64kbit/s at that point... )

DrJokepu:

 Maybe its time for Belgium to privatise its national telecom champion and liberalise the telecom market? I was thinking that telecom market liberalisation is now required in all EU countries.

 

 

It has been done a few year ago. However, Belgacom still owns the physical line. They must just rent it to whoever concurrent comes in at a "reasonnable price". In the last years, belgacom has done nothing but provide crappy service to concurrents. As a result, the most stable adsl service was available thru belgacom. In the same time that same company has bought pretty much all concurrents on the belgian market and has now nearly a monopoly on everything related to physical phone lines... That what privatisation brings :) And now, the governement can't force a downsize of price, you can't for the prices on a private company!

Je moet gewoon naar Nederland verhuizen. Telfort is een beetje duur, maar net te doen. ADSL2 met 20 Mbit/s download en 1 Mbit/s upload voor een schandalige €20. En wat is dat datalimiet waar je het over hebt? Oooo wacht, ik geloof dat wij 10 jaar geleden ook zoiets hadden.

Just move to the Netherlands. Telfort is a bit expensive, but it's just about right. ADSL2 with 20 Mbit/s download and 1 Mbit/s upload for the scandalous price of €20. And what's that transfer limit that you're talking about? Wait, I think we had something like that 10 years ago.

20 Mbps download for €20 is about the standard in the Netherlands. Current consumer techniques can't really get higher and the prices don't get higher because of the fierce competition.

Oo, and if you're from Walonië and not from Vlaanderen (see the Dutch text adbove) you're one of the few French I ever noticed that speaks decent English.

Comcast is presently threatening to start the whole stupid cap-and-charge-by-the-gig thing at the end of the year. I'll say this much - I'll bring in a god damned leased line before I pay anybody by the gig. Step 1 is hoping Comcast doesn't actually go through with that lunacy. Fat chance, they're running scared because of Verizon (as if limiting and alienating customers in the face of an open, limitless competitor is the right thing to do) Step 2 is Comcast business class until Verizon gets around to stringing up some fiber. Step 3 is if Verizon doesn't get around to stringing up fiber before Comcast rapes their business customers as well, I can have AT&T pull a leased line all of 15 feet and link me to some commodity internet provider or other. Step 4 is taking advantage of the unique geography around here and erecting a tower and parking some high power 802.11 gear on top. Step 5 is... Step 6 is PROFIT

 I live in a small European country as well and I've seen my share of WTFs when it coes to DSL connectivity, but you are in a different league altogether.

From what I can tell the only way to resolve this involves pitchforks, torches and lynching on a massive scale.

DOA:

 I live in a small European country as well and I've seen my share of WTFs when it coes to DSL connectivity, but you are in a different league altogether.

From what I can tell the only way to resolve this involves pitchforks, torches and lynching on a massive scale.

Or a merge with the Netherlands. And with all the political fuzz going on right now that's not even a distinct possibility.

dtech:

Or a merge with the Netherlands. And with all the political fuzz going on right now that's not even a distinct possibility.

 

Then the only place in world where people will have a download quota will be Brussel, at 75€ / month, because walloon will never let brussel go to netherland and flemish will never let it go to walloon :p. And, according to Belgacom, the reason prices are so high in Belgium, compared to other countries, is because 'it's a small country and the price of infrastructure must be devided amongst less people than, for example, in France'.

tchize:

And, according to Belgacom, the reason prices are so high in Belgium, compared to other countries, is because 'it's a small country and the price of infrastructure must be devided amongst less people than, for example, in France'.

Which perfectly explains the outrageously high internet prices in South Korea.

 Austria : cheapest FlatRate (No limit) - cca 30 € - 3Mbps Dl / 384 Kbps Ul, cca 40 € - 16 Mbps

There are mobile internet providers as well (HDSP):  cca. 15 € / 15 Gb ....

 

 

jensdt:

So if you're downloading a large file through HTTP (because no decent alternatives are available such as FTP, which happens way to often) and happen to cross a boundry...download corrupt!

Are you talking about "Partial Content" requests here or does that thing actually jump into HTTP exchanges that are already established? That could quite possibly count as the grandmother of WTFs.

Or the UK. I pay £7/month for the fastest ADSL available in my area  (OK, only like 2Mbps down, damn old wires) and no limits (well, they can disconnect you if they decide you're using too much). This is from my mobile phone company, but to get the cheap broadband I only have to top up by £15 a quarter on that, which is peanuts.

Or even better, just go to a good university. I've reached 9MB/s download speed (yes, megaBYTES - I believe that's approaching what 10/100 ethernet is capable of) at Cambridge. That was a torrent but I don't think there were any peers on the LAN. Most of the time my speeds are limited by the server. I do have to pay, but it's only like 15p/gig after the first 12 gigs a term are free.

m0ffx:

Or even better, just go to a good university.

Hahaha, oh wow. My university had the strictest bandwidth constraints for its residents I have ever experienced (though not as bad as Belgium, apparently).

1. Each network port was bound to the first MAC address inserted into it. This meant that if you bought a new PC sometime during the term, you had to get them to reset your room's port in order for the new machine to work. It also meant that you couldn't have a friend with a laptop over and share the network connection. Wireless routers weren't an option, either, since the walls were so thick not even cellphones could get a signal.
2. All network activity was monitored and logged. If in the last seven days you exceeded 500 megabytes of traffic, you'd be "level 1 restricted", which means that during the "day" (roughly standard business hours) your bandwidth would be throttled to modem-like speeds. The Real WTF here is that students are on campus during business hours, so restricting Internet speeds during business hours is absolutely pointless.
3. If, in spite of your daytime restrictions, exceed 1500 megabytes of traffic in the last seven days, your bandwidth is throttled to modem-like speeds at all hours, until usage dropped below 1500 megabytes.
4. Most of the time, this system misreports how much bandwidth is being used, and even though the report on bandwidth usage shows that you've used only 300 megabytes, you're still throttled and can't do shit.
5. Because of the wiring of cable (the only alternative to university network) in the building, cable Internet's signal is so weak that it's not really any better than being throttled.

Needless to say, everyone was constantly throttled by this system, except the few who had figured out how to circumvent it. Though, when the planets aligned just right, you could get blindingly fast Internet; it just wasn't worth the frustrations.

m0ffx:

Or even better, just go to a good university. I've reached 9MB/s download speed (yes, megaBYTES - I believe that's approaching what 10/100 ethernet is capable of) at Cambridge. That was a torrent but I don't think there were any peers on the LAN. Most of the time my speeds are limited by the server. I do have to pay, but it's only like 15p/gig after the first 12 gigs a term are free.

 

And I thought the 1MB/s speed at my uni was fast... But then I can get those speeds anywhere on campus that's covered by wireless, and it's all included in the tuition fee (yay for subsidised UK tuition... and the pre-2006 fee structure!).

tchize:

And, according to Belgacom, the reason prices are so high in Belgium, compared to other countries, is because 'it's a small country and the price of infrastructure must be devided amongst less people than, for example, in France'

Well, now we know they are full of sh*t. Greece has the same population give or take a few hundred thousand and you can get a 2Mbit for 20-30 euros a month.  No data transfer limit. Not only that but we have four times the land mass some of which is comprised of several islands which means a hefty infrastructure cost. The difference here is that we have half a dozen private companies all of which are slitting their own throat to stay competitive. Like I said above, pitchforks and torches...