At least, if the Synaptic package manager in Ubuntu 8.04 is any guide... 8)

 Well, I hope it's a bit quicker, because the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx will be assuming control in 2112...

bnt:

Well, I hope it's a bit quicker, because the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx will be assuming control in 2112...

 What, you think those two are not related?

There's a reason for this...

Actually, there's several reasons for it, one of which is clearly bad math...

Fortunately, Ubuntu is not the only desktop linux solution, and synaptic is not the only Ubuntu package manager.

tgape:

Fortunately, Ubuntu is not the only desktop linux solution, and synaptic is not the only Ubuntu package manager.

Desktop Linux is like some cruel joke.  No matter what you use if you run into a problem the answer is always "well, distro X / package manager Y / desktop environment Z doesn't have those problems!"  When you've finally tried them all and are back where you started the advice is then "well, you can always grab the source and write your own!" 

morbiuswilters:

Desktop Linux is like some cruel joke.  No matter what you use if you run into a problem the answer is always "well, distro X / package manager Y / desktop environment Z doesn't have those problems!"  When you've finally tried them all and are back where you started the advice is then "well, you can always grab the source and write your own!" 

I guess you prefer the "learn to like it or buy new hardware" approach of other operating systems?

ammoQ:

morbiuswilters:

Desktop Linux is like some cruel joke.  No matter what you use if you run into a problem the answer is always "well, distro X / package manager Y / desktop environment Z doesn't have those problems!"  When you've finally tried them all and are back where you started the advice is then "well, you can always grab the source and write your own!" 

I guess you prefer the "learn to like it or buy new hardware" approach of other operating systems?

Well, buying new hardware may be cheaper than wasting a week on some problem. Besides most of the nicest features of latest linux distros require good hardware and you cannot run them on an ancient Pentium/266Mhz machine, do you?

nsimeonov:

Well, buying new hardware may be cheaper than wasting a week on some problem.

A private user probably thinks different. A corporate desktop user requires the hardware upgrade for 100s or 1000s of workplaces, so it quickly becomes more expensive than a week of tinkering.

Besides most of the nicest features of latest linux distros require good hardware and you cannot run them on an ancient Pentium/266Mhz machine, do you?

Depends on what you mean by "nicest features". Many of the desktop linux features I consider "nicest" do not require powerful hardware, i.e. multiple desktops, copy-paste using the middle mouse button, having a window manager that always works even when individual programs freeze, network transparency etc.

ammoQ:

A private user probably thinks different.

NSCoder:

ammoQ:

A private user probably thinks different.

A Mac user probably thinks different.

OK, let's rephrase that to "would not agree".

tgape:

Fortunately, Ubuntu is not the only desktop linux solution, and synaptic is not the only Ubuntu package manager.

To be fair, this is the first time I've seen anything odd in Synaptic in several years. Behind it, the occasional broken package that gets fixed quickly.

I've generally found Ubuntu good enough: this installation is on a 6-y.o laptop, and I've switched it between standard Ubuntu (Gnome), Kubuntu (KDE), and Xubuntu (Xfce), which is the lightweight window manager for really old systems. It's back to a pretty standard setup now - and all the experimentation occurred without any OS reinstalls, no unplanned downtime, no lost data. About the only reason I have to use my Windows box now are a couple of applications (Guild Wars!) and MS Office (which I have to use for compatibility reasons with other users). 

bnt:

the only reason I have to use my Windows box now are a couple of applications (Guild Wars!) and MS Office (which I have to use for compatibility reasons with other users).

Guild wars works perfectly on Ubuntu with Wine installed: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9194&iTestingId=27743
Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough.

That would leave no reasons :)

Thief^:

Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough.

Given the complexity of MS Office's binary file formats, I would not expect OOo or any other software to support them 100% perfectly ever. Not even MS Office 2007.

I've had GW going under Wine before, but it's an old machine (almost 4y now), and the performance was well down. If I'm still playing GW in a couple of years, we'll see - rest assured that I am on the case. As for M$ Office, well, I don't mind actually mind using it. XP and M$ Office were "paid for" long ago i.e. M$ aren't getting any more of my money.

bnt:

I've had GW going under Wine before, but it's an old machine (almost 4y now), and the performance was well down. If I'm still playing GW in a couple of years, we'll see - rest assured that I am on the case. As for M$ Office, well, I don't mind actually mind using it. XP and M$ Office were "paid for" long ago i.e. M$ aren't getting any more of my money.

You are misinterpreting "M$".

Remember what's one of the most important applications written by MS? One that is actually on topic here (as it is for developers).

Right: GW-BASIC, QBASIC, QuickBasic,  Visual Basic, Visual Basic .NET.

And what does "M$" mean there? String variable named M.

Now go look at the code. Among other stuff you find:

100 REM Global variables to save typing work:
110 A$ = "ASSIGN A=B B=A"
120 B$ = "BTX"
130 C$ = "Corporation"
...
230 M$ = "Microsoft"
...

So instead of writing "Microsoft Corporation", you now can simply write M$ + " " + C$, or in newer BASIC dialects, M$ &" " & C$. Actually, if you say Microsoft, everyone knows you are referring to the company, so colloquially, it suffices to say M$ instead of "Microsoft".

So, whoever says M$ to refer to microsoft, he can sure do so - but should then refer to Linux with $L, to Ubuntu with $U, to Debian with $table, and to Perl with $P.

NO! $P is NOT PHP. It is Perl.

ammoQ:

I guess you prefer the "learn to like it or buy new hardware" approach of other operating systems?

Strange, I've been running XP for about 5 years on one computer without ever having to replace the hardware.

On the other hand, the last thing I remember from Linux was trying 4 different wifi cards before I could find one that was actually supported (not just claimed to be supported).  So who is it that always has to buy new hardware?

bnt:

I have a more personal, non-technical reason why I say M$ for Microsoft, and not MS.

Yes, we know - because you're a tool.

Go back to /.

Aaron:

Yes, we know - because you're a tool.

Go back to /.

Aaron:

Strange, I've been running XP for about 5 years on one computer without ever having to replace the hardware.

On the other hand, the last thing I remember from Linux was trying 4 different wifi cards before I could find one that was actually supported (not just claimed to be supported).  So who is it that always has to buy new hardware?

Nobody has to buy new hardware "always". People who switch from XP to Vista might have to buy new hardware, depending on the hardware they have.

People switching from Windows to Linux might have to, though the last time I had to do that was back in 2001 when I bought a new printer to replace a Windows-only GDI printer.

People switching from Linux to Windows might have to buy new hardware, depending on the age of the existing hardware and the Windows version they switch to.

People switching from one Linux distro to another one most likely can keep their hardware.

Of course if someone plans to use a computer with Linux, it's wise to consider that when buying hardware.

bnt:

Dunno if that last comment was aimed at me... anyway, I have a more personal, non-technical reason why I say M$ for Microsoft, and not MS.

Aaron:

Strange, I've been running XP for about 5 years on one computer without ever having to replace the hardware.

Same here, and I just upgraded my 3 year old laptop to Vista Business. Everything is enabled, Aero included. No tweaks, nothing disabled yet. Nothing major to report. Install went flawless. 

It is now my development box.

People who make these comments are usually uninformed people who listen to morons who tried installing Vista with Aero on their 533 mhz laptop with 256MB of RAM and cannot figure out why Vista doesn't run very well.

MasterPlanSoftware:

People who make these comments are usually uninformed people who listen to morons who tried installing Vista with Aero on their 533 mhz laptop with 256MB of RAM and cannot figure out why Vista doesn't run very well.

No sane person would expect Vista to run well on such a computer. But with every major Windows version, like the switch from 9x to XP and now XP to Vista, some older, but still working hardware pieces are rendered obsolete because they lack driver support. You might argue if this is MS' fault or the hardware vendor's, but that is little help for the affected users.