Amazingly screwed-up installation experience
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@Ben L. said:
www://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagesh
@Wikipoedia said:
"Jerry Lewis of India"
Well, on the bright side, it's only Wednesday and that is the most depressing thing I will read all week.
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@Ben L. said:
I've never seen an 8" floppy, though. Aren't they usually hard when they get that long?
From some video material I've seen, the biggest ones usually don't get very hard at all.
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@javispedro said:
why does community server randomly eat spaces between my words?
There should only ever be 1 space between words, so your complaint is moot!
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@javispedro said:
BTW, why does community server randomly eat spaces between my words? I don't think I've posted enough in these forums to deserve this punishment...
Don't use the backspace key. Or disable the WYSIAWHG interface and use the plain text editor. But the latter means putting in your own <br />'s to get carriage returns...
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@dhromed said:
Not if it's deleting that one space...@javispedro said:
why does community server randomly eat spaces between my words?
There should only ever be 1 space between words, so your complaint is moot!
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@dhromed said:
Yup. Could always try using &nsbp;. Or  . Or  . Or  . There's actually quite a few to choose from.@PJH said:
Not if it's deleting that one space...
Ah, that space.
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@blakeyrat said:
Windows 8 does put a taskbar on each monitor.
ZOMG, they actually improved a part of the UI in 8. I guess I hadn't booted into 8 since I got my machine all set up and the second monitor attached. I guess that's the silver lining to the tragedy.
@ender said:
I've had taskbars on all monitors (without using Ultramon) since 2012.
How did you do it? Aside from running 8.
@morbiuswilters said:
Of course, since you asked about multiple monitors, there's one area Windows beats Linux: being able to plug or unplug a second monitor without having it randomly freeze up the motherfucking OS. So maybe M$ felt it was more important to, you know, actually make sure people could have more than one monitor before they worried about how many taskbars the user had.
Could be. I remember having those issues a few years ago, but haven't seen them for some time.
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@morbiuswilters said:
This raises another question: do they call them 8" floppies in Europe? Or do they insist on using their own stupid units so it's like "923432.139080π√x-θ micro-becquerel information puck"?
Come on, you know the French are violently opposed to using English words. They probably call them "disques sans rigidité" or something.
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@bstorer said:
@morbiuswilters said:
203 mm disques sans rigiditéThis raises another question: do they call them 8" floppies in Europe? Or do they insist on using their own stupid units so it's like "923432.139080π√x-θ micro-becquerel information puck"?
Come on, you know the French are violently opposed to using English words. They probably call them "disques sans rigidité" or something.
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@bstorer said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Disquette. Also used here in Portugal.This raises another question: do they call them 8" floppies in Europe? Or do they insist on using their own stupid units so it's like "923432.139080π√x-θ micro-becquerel information puck"?
Come on, you know the French are violently opposed to using English words. They probably call them "disques sans rigidité" or something.Regarding sizes we use(d) inches, just as we still do for screen sizes for example. It's more of an "abstract" unit though. We'll convert to cm if we care about actual absolute size.
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@Zecc said:
Regarding sizes we use(d) inches, just as we still do for screen sizes for example. It's more of an "abstract" unit though. We'll convert to cm if we care about actual absolute size.
Yes. It's kind of like an expression, more than a a measuring unit. If we're talking about 22inch or 21 inch monitors, it might as well be called "Class A" monitor or "Class B" monitors or something like that.
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@dhromed said:
@Zecc said:
Regarding sizes we use(d) inches, just as we still do for screen sizes for example. It's more of an "abstract" unit though. We'll convert to cm if we care about actual absolute size.
Yes. It's kind of like an expression, more than a a measuring unit. If we're talking about 22inch or 21 inch monitors, it might as well be called "Class A" monitor or "Class B" monitors or something like that.
Of course, if one gets angry when referring to inch, it takes on a completely different meaning: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=angry%20inch&defid=2075436
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@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Anecdata: at a customer's house just two days ago I plugged a second monitor into her running HP laptop, on which I had installed Ubuntu Lucid four years ago, and it just started working without my having to do anything else at all.Windows 8 does put a taskbar on each monitor.
ZOMG, they actually improved a part of the UI in 8. I guess I hadn't booted into 8 since I got my machine all set up and the second monitor attached. I guess that's the silver lining to the tragedy.
@ender said:
I've had taskbars on all monitors (without using Ultramon) since 2012.
How did you do it? Aside from running 8.
@morbiuswilters said:
Of course, since you asked about multiple monitors, there's one area Windows beats Linux: being able to plug or unplug a second monitor without having it randomly freeze up the motherfucking OS. So maybe M$ felt it was more important to, you know, actually make sure people could have more than one monitor before they worried about how many taskbars the user had.
Could be. I remember having those issues a few years ago, but haven't seen them for some time.
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@flabdablet said:
Seriously, have you ever tried to shift Program Files or Documents and Settings to somewhere else right after a clean installation of Windows? You need to edit lots of registry values to make it work, and good luck finding every last one; many of them use weirdly edited versions of the pathname prefixes.
...yes? It's very easy in Windows 7 and doesn't require hacking the registry at all.
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@flabdablet said:
@boomzilla said:
@blakeyrat said:
Anecdata: at a customer's house just two days ago I plugged a second monitor into her running HP laptop, on which I had installed Ubuntu Lucid four years ago, and it just started working without my having to do anything else at all.Windows 8 does put a taskbar on each monitor.
ZOMG, they actually improved a part of the UI in 8. I guess I hadn't booted into 8 since I got my machine all set up and the second monitor attached. I guess that's the silver lining to the tragedy.
@ender said:
I've had taskbars on all monitors (without using Ultramon) since 2012.
How did you do it? Aside from running 8.
@morbiuswilters said:
Of course, since you asked about multiple monitors, there's one area Windows beats Linux: being able to plug or unplug a second monitor without having it randomly freeze up the motherfucking OS. So maybe M$ felt it was more important to, you know, actually make sure people could have more than one monitor before they worried about how many taskbars the user had.
Could be. I remember having those issues a few years ago, but haven't seen them for some time.
I've no data either. So ignore all this...
But this is why I hate Linux so very, very much. You try to do X and run into random horrible problems that you haven't the first idea about how to solve/workaround... and a LOT of the folks who "could" help will 1. Refuse to admit there could be a problem. 2. Blame the user for messing up. 3. Argue that you shouldn't have tried to do X in the first place. 4. Tell you to go fix it yourself.
Windows sucks in it's own many ways, but at least its problems tend to be acknowledged and people try help you solve them. The attitude of any Linux folks I've interacted with, from my university professors to enthusiast friends to internet folks, have pretty much followed the 1,2,3,4 pattern.
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@flabdablet said:
Anecdata: at a customer's house just two days ago I plugged a second monitor into her running HP laptop, on which I had installed Ubuntu Lucid four years ago, and it just started working without my having to do anything else at all.
It all seems to depend on the video driver, which makes sense.
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@boomzilla said:
How did you do it? Aside from running 8.
I switched to Windows 8. If you're still stuck on 5 years old OSes (or older), you can use Ultramon.
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@boomzilla said:
@flabdablet said:
Her laptop has Intel video. I believe the xorg-video-intel driver is open source; no surprise to me then that it works as it should.Anecdata: at a customer's house just two days ago I plugged a second monitor into her running HP laptop, on which I had installed Ubuntu Lucid four years ago, and it just started working without my having to do anything else at all.
It all seems to depend on the video driver, which makes sense.
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@anotherusername said:
@flabdablet said:
You beat me to it. I keep Users on a separate drive. This week my system/boot drive failed, I plopped a new one in, re-installed Windows, pointed Users at the right location, and hey all my stuff is back!Seriously, have you ever tried to shift Program Files or Documents and Settings to somewhere else right after a clean installation of Windows? You need to edit lots of registry values to make it work, and good luck finding every last one; many of them use weirdly edited versions of the pathname prefixes.
...yes? It's very easy in Windows 7 and doesn't require hacking the registry at all.
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@ender said:
@boomzilla said:
How did you do it? Aside from running 8.
I switched to Windows 8. If you're still stuck on 5 years old OSes (or older), you can use Ultramon.The windows machine I need to use most of the time is 7, but it's a customer provided laptop and I don't have / need multiple monitors for it. I only booted my machine into 8 to confirm blakey's report. I probably haven't booted that for several months, though I probably should do that again to keep up with Windows updates before it breaks again. Touching the Win8 interface has probably scared me away for another few months, though.
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@flabdablet said:
Anecdata: at a customer's house just two days ago I plugged a second monitor into her running HP laptop, on which I had installed Ubuntu Lucid four years ago, and it just started working without my having to do anything else at all.
Sure it will; now plug and unplug 100 times and see how many of those times it crashes.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Sure it will; now plug and unplug 100 times and see how many of those times it crashes.
I've got a colleague whose Win 8 laptop crashes every time he plugs it into a projector. Something in the Dell-supplied video driver seems to hate the whole concept of showing things to other people. (Is it open source? No idea, but I doubt it.) Nobody else in the room has the problem, but none of us have the exact same software/hardware combination (and we've a real mix of stuff so we can test our code thoroughly).I have a theory: shit software is shit software, and that's got nothing to do with how much you paid for it. You might imagine that paying a lot means it is better. There's a whole ecosystem of shitty software suppliers out there who disprove that. (Alas.)
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@Ben L. said:
www://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagesh
That helps explain why his posts here don't make sense; he's been dead for five years.
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@morbiuswilters said:
there's one area Windows beats Linux: being able to plug or unplug a second monitor without having it randomly freeze up the motherfucking OS.
Now if they could only make it not throw all your desktop icons into a blender then barf them randomly over your screen...
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@flabdablet said:
Her laptop has Intel video. I believe the xorg-video-intel driver is open source; no surprise to me then that it works as it should.
The Intel driver's not bad. Nouveau (the open source nvidia driver) is absolute garbage. I mean, you may as well just use software rendering because damn. That said, I've run ATI, Intel and nvidia cards on Linux and multi-monitor support is always fucked up. Yes, now xorg will auto-detect, but it still crashes randomly when you plug or unplug a monitor.
And it still does that stupid x11 hack of just making the desktop a big rectangle that the monitors "fit" into. So, for example, my desktop has a big area about 1600 x 540 that is totally invisible because it's "below" my laptop. But I can still move the mouse down there, I can still drag windows down there and I can still lose windows down there.
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@dkf said:
I have a theory: shit software is shit software, and that's got nothing to do with how much you paid for it. You might imagine that paying a lot means it is better. There's a whole ecosystem of shitty software suppliers out there who disprove that. (Alas.)
What the fuck is wrong with you people? This is, like, the same goddamn argument you idiots always make and I must have shot it down 50 times in the last month. I'm gonna make it big so you can see:
Nobody is saying all proprietary software is perfect. The argument I've made, a thousand times now, is that open sores is substantially worse than proprietary overall. Saying "Hey, look, I found a piece of proprietary software that sucks. That proves that proprietary software is just as bad as open sores!" makes you look like a moron who doesn't know how to formulate an argument. I mean, what the goddamn hell? There are almost no good FOSS products I can think of. Chromium is the only one that comes to mind. And yet you stand there, in front of the greatest, reeking pile of software fail that has ever been assembled and point to the dog turd on the other guy's lawn and are like "HA HA! See? You wallow in shit, too!"
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I'm replying just so I can get your speech bubble hack on this post.
Also, your font isn't big enough. Someone still won't see it.
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I'm just replying to get your Hitler hack on this post.
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@morbiuswilters said:
The argument I've made, a thousand times now, is that open sores is substantially worse than proprietary overall.
That has simply not been my experience. In my experience, I have only very very rarely been unable to find a completely adequate open source option to fulfil a need that would have had most people reaching for some well-marketed piece of proprietary shiny.
The simple fact is that none of us have anything like an unbiased sampling of the available software, and all of us bring preferences and prejudices to the software choices we make. That, coupled with the fact that most people have a strong ego attachment to their choices and have difficulty acknowledging that something they prefer has flaws and faults that would make it unacceptable to somebody else, means that our choices will generally reinforce our preferences and prejudices. And 90% of software (like 90% of everything) really does suck in truly annoying ways, which makes it really easy to see anybody who chooses something different from us as just Wrong From The Start.
And we all value different things. Personally, I loathe Chrome (and Chromium). I hate the way it renders text, I hate the conflation of addressing and search, its nasty rounded tabs are annoying and I really, really hate its inscrutable icons and its preferences menu. On the other hand, I'm willing to put up with the things LibreOffice does badly because I enjoy the things it does well, and I write bash scripts to relax. You distrust government; I distrust big business more. You consider Stallman's ape-like personal grooming choices repellent; I consider high-priced fashion and general bling just as repellent. We like different things. That doesn't make either of us a retard.
I know you claim to be right into recreational hatred, but honestly, if you weren't so much fun to wind up, you'd get wound up by fewer people.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@dkf said:I have a theory: shit software is shit software, and that's got nothing to do with how much you paid for it. You might imagine that paying a lot means it is better. There's a whole ecosystem of shitty software suppliers out there who disprove that. (Alas.)
What the fuck is wrong with you people? This is, like, the same goddamn argument you idiots always make and I must have shot it down 50 times in the last month. I'm gonna make it big so you can see:
Nobody is saying all proprietary software is perfect. The argument I've made, a thousand times now, is that open sores is substantially worse than proprietary overall. Saying "Hey, look, I found a piece of proprietary software that sucks. That proves that proprietary software is just as bad as open sores!" makes you look like a moron who doesn't know how to formulate an argument. I mean, what the goddamn hell? There are almost no good FOSS products I can think of. Chromium is the only one that comes to mind. And yet you stand there, in front of the greatest, reeking pile of software fail that has ever been assembled and point to the dog turd on the other guy's lawn and are like "HA HA! See? You wallow in shit, too!"
What is that incredibly small text? I can't read it.
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@flabdablet said:
In my experience, I have only very very rarely been unable to find a completely adequate open source option to fulfil a need that would have had most people reaching for some well-marketed piece of proprietary shiny.
- A UML diagramming tool (or, really any diagramming.. think Visio)
- A high-scale RDBMS
- Video editing
- Audio editing
I figure that will keep you busy for awhile.
@flabdablet said:
Personally, I loathe Chrome (and Chromium). I hate the way it renders text, I hate the conflation of addressing and search, its nasty rounded tabs are annoying and I really, really hate its inscrutable icons and its preferences menu. On the other hand, I'm willing to put up with the things LibreOffice does badly because I enjoy the things it does well, and I write bash scripts to relax.
Do you not see how that makes, say, LibreOffice useless for the vast, vast majority of people?
@flabdablet said:
You distrust government; I distrust big business more.
When businesses murder a few billion people, when they can come to your house in the middle of the night and shoot you in the head, then we'll talk. If you really think this, you are a bigger moron than I figured.
@flabdablet said:
You consider Stallman's ape-like personal grooming choices repellent; I consider high-priced fashion and general bling just as repellent.
I hate fashion and bling, too, but how in God's name can you compare that to eating pieces of your foot? Insane.
@flabdablet said:
That doesn't make either of us a retard.
Sorry, some things are preferences (chocolate vs. vanilla) and some are just facts (Bill Gates isn't quite the threat that Stalin was).
@flabdablet said:
I know you claim to be right into recreational hatred, but honestly, if you weren't so much fun to wind up, you'd get wound up by fewer people.
And... you don't think I'm having fun? I don't understand your point.
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@morbiuswilters said:
- A UML diagramming tool (or, really any diagramming.. think Visio)
- A high-scale RDBMS
- Video editing
- Audio editing
Can't even find shit to draw a Gantt chart.
@morbiuswilters said:
Video editing
Who was it I gave the Super Mega Non-Linear Video Editing Challenge to a few months back? Linux fans always weasel out of that one.
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@flabdablet said:
We like different things. That doesn't make either of us a retard.
You're both retards. Problem solved.
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@blakeyrat said:
@morbiuswilters said:
- A UML diagramming tool (or, really any diagramming.. think Visio)
- A high-scale RDBMS
- Video editing
- Audio editing
Can't even find shit to draw a Gantt chart.
Yeah, I know, it's really pathetic. Fun side story: many, many years ago Morbs got paid to write a web-based project management suite, including drag-and-drop Gantt charting. The company I worked for didn't want to pay licensing for Microsoft Project and figured if they built something web-based they could turn around and sell it.
I wasn't very experienced with project management software at that point, so I asked for an example. Of course it was a FOSS shop and we ran Linux so I spent a long, long time looking for any half-way adequate project management software just to learn the concepts. The only actual GUI app I found was so utterly broken it was a joke. I ended up asking them to buy a Project license just so I could play around with it. The CTO "found" a copy (i.e. illegally downloaded.)
Long story short, after four months I managed to build a pretty cool PM application. This was pre-jQuery but it was a pretty slick, even used SVG to do the Gantt charts and fell back to divs/css if SVG wasn't available. Of course, I don't think they ever sold it, so it was just a big pissing-away of money and a mega case of NIH.
@blakeyrat said:
Who was it I gave the Super Mega Non-Linear Video Editing Challenge to a few months back? Linux fans always weasel out of that one.
Ha ha, FOSS video editing is just shockingly awful. Seriously, one of the better options is CLI-based.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@blakeyrat said:
Who was it I gave the Super Mega Non-Linear Video Editing Challenge to a few months back? Linux fans always weasel out of that one.
Ha ha, FOSS video editing is just shockingly awful. Seriously, one of the better options is CLI-based.
If you're referrring to ffmpeg as "one of the better options", I'd like to hear about the other FOSS options that have shown up overnight.
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@bstorer said:
@flabdablet said:
We like different things. That doesn't make either of us a retard.
You're both retards. Problem solved.Technically I just have a brain tumor.
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@Ben L. said:
If you're referrring to ffmpeg as "one of the better options", I'd like to hear about the other FOSS options that have shown up overnight.
VirtualDub and I think Blender can be used to video, kinda.
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@flabdablet said:
Personally, I loathe Chrome (and Chromium). [...]I hate the conflation of addressing and search
Then you're going to love this.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Ha ha, FOSS video editing is just shockingly awful. Seriously, one of the better options is CLI-based.
Lightworks is in process of being open-sourced.Of course, this is no argument for FOSS because: a) it didn't start that way; b) Lightworks doesn't have the most intuitive of interfaces and isn't for everybody.
@morbiuswilters said:
Blender can be used to video, kinda.
Hardly the best option. In my (albeit limited) experience, Kdenlive is the one that sucks less. For me at least.
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@Zecc said:
WTF? Awesome Bar? <font color="#0000FF" size="4">Awesome Bar?</font> <font color="#FF0000" size="5">Awesome Bar?</font>@flabdablet said:
Personally, I loathe Chrome (and Chromium). [...]I hate the conflation of addressing and search
Then you're going to love this.You've got to be shitting me. They actually use the same stupid fucking fuck name for their stupid fucking fuck bullshit that Firefox has been using for their stupid fucking fuck bullshit snce before Chrome existed?
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@dhromed said:
Since that's still kind of an ongoing topic, let me add this: I had never heard of 8-inch floppies before, and barely even seen a 5¼. By the time computers got mainstream around these parts 3½ were already becoming norm and the 5¼ outdated. I've seen plenty of 5¼ drives, but a disk? Maybe once or twice.@Ben L. said:
I've never seen an 8" floppy, though. Aren't they usually hard when they get that long?
From some video material I've seen, the biggest ones usually don't get very hard at all.
So although we'd say "3 and half" and "5 and a quarted" to tell those apart, the household names for floppies were "740 diskette" and "1.44 diskette" (or "HD") depending on capacity.
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@El_Heffe said:
Firefox has been using for their stupid fucking fuck bullshit
You mean that address bar in FFX that works perfectly?
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@blakeyrat said:
Who was it I gave the Super Mega Non-Linear Video Editing Challenge to a few months back? Linux fans always weasel out of that one.
Ha ha, FOSS video editing is just shockingly awful. Seriously, one of the better options is CLI-based.
I tried once, a long time ago. Avidemux was truly the only thing I could find.
It did not work. As in, "this button does nothing. Nor does this one." and "oh, it crashed and vanished"
I still feel bad.
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@flabdablet said:
Chrome's nasty rounded tabs are annoying
bro, u gon' luuuv Firefox-Australis
(you get used to it. Quit whining)
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@Zecc said:
I had never heard of 8-inch floppies before
Those were really, really old. The true bendy floppy disk that everyone knows is actually the compact and improved iteration of that.
And then you got the pleasingly small hardbody 3.5 inch.
And then you got CDs.
And then you got USB sticks.
@Zecc said:
although we'd say "3 and half" and "5 and a quarted" to tell those apart, the household names for floppies were "740 diskette" and "1.44 diskette"
In which household? None that I've ever been in. floppies were on the way out when I was on the way in to computing, and we've always talked about "real floppy"(5.25" bendy) and "floppy" (3.5" non-bendy)
I remember transferring a single mp3 on several floppies. :')
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@El_Heffe said:
WTF? Awesome Bar? <font color="#0000FF" size="4">Awesome Bar?</font> <font color="#FF0000" size="5">Awesome Bar?</font>
You've got to be shitting me. They actually use the same stupid fucking fuck name for their stupid fucking fuck bullshit that Firefox has been using for their stupid fucking fuck bullshit snce before Chrome existed?
Gott ist tot.
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@dhromed said:
It did not work. As in, "this button does nothing. Nor does this one." and "oh, it crashed and vanished"
I still feel bad.
Don't.
Some people--FOSS people--will try to tell you it's your fault. That you deserved it for typing provocatively.
But that's bullshit. That's blaming the victim, and we should not stand for it. Let's take back the night!
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@dhromed said:
In which household? None that I've ever been in.
Something it's like you live in a whole different country!Are you telling me you never transformed a low density floppy into a high density floppy with the magical powers of a drill? I may be a wee bit older than you then.
Edit: zip disks were great. I've been lucky that not a single one I owned has failed on me. Which hasn't been my experience with USB pens. :(
