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This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Last post 01-07-2013 4:03 AM by dhromed. 39 replies.
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01-03-2013 10:47 AM
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db2
  - Joined on 06-15-2006
- Posts 310
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This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
A coworker installed Office 2013 on his system. I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus, but he did it anyway.
He sent me a screenshot of the new icon for Outlook:
A little monochromatic, but not bad. Then when you have new messages, it indicates this with...
Another envelope! Yay! I can imagine the design meeting quite vividly.
"What should we put on the new Outlook icon?"
"How about an envelope?"
"Great! And what should we display on the taskbar icon when there are new messages?"
"...An envelope?"
"Brilliant!"
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Douglasac
- Joined on 03-05-2010
- South Australia
- Posts 239
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
 db2: I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus
Why do people complain about these? Seriously, they are not distracting or annoying. If you find all caps so distracting that you can't help to look at them you probably need help.
db2: Another envelope!
Well, for starters, it's orange so it stands out, and if you're orange\blue colour blind, you need only look at the little orange envelope that appears in the system tray.
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FrostCat
 - Joined on 02-21-2005
- Posts 337
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
db2: A coworker installed Office 2013 on his system. I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus, but he did it anyway.
He sent me a screenshot of the new icon for Outlook:
A little monochromatic, but not bad. Then when you have new messages, it indicates this with...
Another envelope! Yay! I can imagine the design meeting quite vividly.
"What should we put on the new Outlook icon?"
"How about an envelope?"
"Great! And what should we display on the taskbar icon when there are new messages?"
"...An envelope?"
"Brilliant!"
Imagine that. An email client shows an envelope icon overlay over it's own icon, and unlike older versions, even puts it in a different color.
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Sutherlands
  - Joined on 07-24-2008
- Posts 1,419
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Also, you can change the menu to not be in caps. (Or at least you can in VS)
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blakeyrat
  - Joined on 10-29-2008
- Posts 8,599
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
What would you have used as a new email indicator?
Here's my recommendation:
 <- I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head. "There is no such thing as a diet." - Lorne Kates
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db2
- Joined on 06-15-2006
- Posts 310
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
blakeyrat: What would you have used as a new email indicator?
Here's my recommendation:
I like that one.
But the point isn't so much that they're using an envelope for the new mail indicator, rather that there was already an envelope on there to begin with. One green light means stop! Two green lights mean go!
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RichP
 - Joined on 10-05-2010
- Posts 160
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Douglasac: db2: I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus
Why do people complain about these? Seriously, they are not distracting or annoying. If you find all caps so distracting that you can't help to look at them you probably need help. ....
REALLY YOU DON'T MIND LOOKING AT ALL CAPS? I PERSONALLY FIND IT A BIT ANNOYING, AT LEAST AT FIRST. GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
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alegr
- Joined on 01-17-2008
- Posts 387
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Sutherlands: Also, you can change the menu to not be in caps. (Or at least you can in VS)
How about a recipe for doing that in VS2012?
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Lorne Kates
 - Joined on 01-19-2010
- Markham, ON
- Posts 1,509
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
alegr: Sutherlands: Also, you can change the menu to not be in caps. (Or at least you can in VS)
How about a recipe for doing that in VS2012?
Recipe
- Open the registry editor and go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\11.0\General\
(For Windows 8 Express go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VSWinExpress\11.0\General) (For Web Express go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VSWDExpress\11.0\General)
- Create a new DWORD value called SuppressUppercaseConversion set to 1
 <%= Eval("sig_owner") ?>! <asp:Label runat="server" id="lblGetYourOwn" Text="Get your own!" />
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boomzilla
 - Joined on 12-11-2007
- NOVA
- Posts 3,768
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Lorne Kates:
I like this guy's comment, about which we could have a long discussion:
Jaime*:
Great solution. It seems hard to imagine anything easier than adding a single key to the registry.
I have looked at the intersection of the set of Visual Studio users, and the set of people who haven't altered their registry. It was an empty set. This is not hacking. This is using your computer.
* I'm not trying to imply it's TDWTF's Jaime, but that might make for a better flamefest, so maybe I should.
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bridget99
 - Joined on 02-01-2009
- Posts 697
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
RichP: GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
Basically everything about Windows makes me nostalgic for AS/400.
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Sutherlands
- Joined on 07-24-2008
- Posts 1,419
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
bridget99: RichP: GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
Basically everything about Windows makes me nostalgic for AS/400.
We, too, are nostalgic for you having an AS/400.
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locallunatic
  - Joined on 05-19-2010
- (YourLocation==USA-KY?local:MisleadingUsername)
- Posts 489
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Sutherlands: We, too, are nostalgic for you having an AS/400.
Come now, if he wasn't at least familiar with modern things then his trolling attempts wouldn't even parse correctly. Personally I prefer his semi-competent trolling to the junk he would be spewing otherwise.
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Lorne Kates
- Joined on 01-19-2010
- Markham, ON
- Posts 1,509
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Sutherlands: bridget99: RichP: GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
Basically everything about Windows makes me nostalgic for AS/400.
We, too, are nostalgic for you having an AS/400.
Now I want a screenshot of this thread on AS/400. :|
<%= Eval("sig_owner") ?>! <asp:Label runat="server" id="lblGetYourOwn" Text="Get your own!" />
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Tankster
 - Joined on 11-16-2012
- Posts 2
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Lorne Kates: Sutherlands: bridget99: RichP: GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
Basically everything about Windows makes me nostalgic for AS/400.
We, too, are nostalgic for you having an AS/400.
Now I want a screenshot of this thread on AS/400. :|
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MiffTheFox
  - Joined on 07-03-2008
- Posts 966
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
db2: I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus
What are Capslock menus? The only things I can find on Google is that people are complaining about them without saying what they are. I'm going to assume that pressing capslock opens up a menu.
If only Microsoft would hire people from circlejerk-filled message boards instead of experienced UX designers, this sort of thing will never happen.
[Sanity Not Available until further notice. The trolls have won.]
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RaceProUK
 - Joined on 06-24-2010
- Reality
- Posts 159
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Lorne Kates: - Open the registry editor and go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\11.0\General\
(For Windows 8 Express go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VSWinExpress\11.0\General) (For Web Express go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VSWDExpress\11.0\General)
- Create a new DWORD value called SuppressUppercaseConversion set to 1
$10 to the first person to create an extension to set this in VS2012 itself.
[blakeyrat] NOBODY expects the Slashdot inquisition!
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boomzilla
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- NOVA
- Posts 3,768
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
MiffTheFox: db2: I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus
What are Capslock menus?
MENUS THAT ARE IN ALL CAPITALS
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PJH
 - Joined on 02-14-2007
- Newcastle, UK
- Posts 3,139
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
MiffTheFox: What are Capslock menus?
From the "Recipe" link above: 
3 logicians go into a bar.; the barman says ‘Would you all like a drink?’.
The first says 'I’m not sure', the second says 'I’m not sure', and the third says 'Yes'.
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Cassidy
 - Joined on 01-09-2012
- Posts 2,821
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
PJH: From the "Recipe" link above:
I'm kinda with Douglasac on that one - the menu headings being all in UPPERCASE doesn't look too bad to me - if anything, it makes them stand out as being the things to aim for with the mouse pointer. Do all the links in the drop-down menus also appear in upper case, or just the menu headings? I can see how that would be annoying fast.
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LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet
- Joined on 10-15-2012
- London
- Posts 34
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
MS are breaking so many of their own rules lately. And they can't even be consistent with themselves either. Docked panels don't have uppercase titles, and neither to the ribbon tabs in Office. Hey, wait a minute, why does VS even have a traditional menu if they're so focused on putting the ribbon everywhere? Probably because it was rushed and unfinished, like Office 2013 for ARM.
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Lorne Kates
- Joined on 01-19-2010
- Markham, ON
- Posts 1,509
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Tankster:
=)
<%= Eval("sig_owner") ?>! <asp:Label runat="server" id="lblGetYourOwn" Text="Get your own!" />
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topspin
 - Joined on 03-07-2008
- Posts 304
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Douglasac: db2: I warned him about the CAPSLOCK menus
WHY DO PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE? SERIOUSLY, THEY ARE NOT DISTRACTING OR ANNOYING. IF YOU FIND ALL CAPS SO DISTRACTING THAT YOU CAN'T HELP TO LOOK AT THEM YOU PROBABLY NEED HELP.
FTFY. Even if you don't immediately feel like it's some kiddy yelling at you (I was about to say script kiddy, but they use rAndOm Cas3), it's annoying.
What's worse, it's horrible for readability. Imagine reading a book in all uppercase. The words don't have a nice outline and the spacing is awful too.
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RaceProUK
- Joined on 06-24-2010
- Reality
- Posts 159
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: MS are breaking so many of their own rules lately.
Lately? I think you mean forever :)
LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: And they can't even be consistent with themselves either.
Been that way since 1975. LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: Hey, wait a minute, why does VS even have a traditional menu if they're so focused on putting the ribbon everywhere?
Because the VS team didn't want to use the ribbon. Besides, VS has so many menus and menu options the ribbon would be overloaded. LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: Probably because it was rushed and unfinished, like Office
2013 for ARM.
To be fair, MS do advertise Office 2013 for ARM as a Preview edition.
[blakeyrat] NOBODY expects the Slashdot inquisition!
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MiffTheFox
- Joined on 07-03-2008
- Posts 966
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
PJH: MiffTheFox: What are Capslock menus?
From the "Recipe" link above:
Wow. I've used Visual Studio 2012 damn near daily for about two months and never noticed those.
Does... does anyone else here complaining about them actually use it?
I thought I'd hate the non-native window border but in practice I just ignore it. As long as it doesn't try to set the mode on my graphics card and assume I only have one monitor I'm good.
[Sanity Not Available until further notice. The trolls have won.]
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blakeyrat
- Joined on 10-29-2008
- Posts 8,599
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: MS are breaking so many of their own rules lately.
Apple's been doing it since 2001 and they've had record sales. Why shouldn't Microsoft?
The invisible hand speaks!
<- I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head. "There is no such thing as a diet." - Lorne Kates
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locallunatic
- Joined on 05-19-2010
- (YourLocation==USA-KY?local:MisleadingUsername)
- Posts 489
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
blakeyrat:
The invisible hand speaks!
Unfortunately it can be hard to read the signs (hands don't talk with sounds) as it's invisible.
I'm bored, can someone spice up these rants?
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LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet
- Joined on 10-15-2012
- London
- Posts 34
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
RaceProUK: LoremIpsumDolorSitAmet: MS are breaking so many of their own rules lately.
Lately? I think you mean forever :)
Very true... Although I think they've been outdoing themselves lately. I guess it's just the side effect of a big company trying to adapt to the modern world and trying to be hip. That also goes for their 'matey' style of English in the new Office. I like the fact that the poor developers predicted that this would piss people off (including themselves, probably) and actually made a registry entry for it, presumably because management said they couldn't have their checkbox.
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The Bytemaster
- Joined on 09-30-2010
- Posts 56
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Cassidy:
PJH: From the "Recipe" link above:
I'm kinda with Douglasac on that one - the menu headings being all in UPPERCASE doesn't look too bad to me - if anything, it makes them stand out as being the things to aim for with the mouse pointer.
Do all the links in the drop-down menus also appear in upper case, or just the menu headings? I can see how that would be annoying fast.
I have 2 primary problems with the all-caps menus.
- They are destracting. Items in all-caps usually demand attention. When I am working in VS, the last thing I need is to be destracted away from my code -- I have enough destractions already. When tried to work with them, it was just too distracting. (On another system, monitor, running in a VM, etc, I don't have a problem with the distraction. Might be specific to certain display's / environments)
- Readability. The US government is forcing all of the localities to change their road signs to mixed-case because it was proven to increase readability enough to make it safer when driving. Mcirosoft decides they don't need nobody to actually read the menu names, just click them.
It just feels to me like some graphics design team desided that all-caps was the way to go for the "clean" look and they never really looked into people acually using it.
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TheCPUWizard
- Joined on 04-07-2010
- Posts 726
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Regarding ALLCAPS menus, I dont mind... Regarding nostolgia, I dont mind.... .- -.-. - ..- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- --..-- / .. / .-.. .. -.- . / -- . -. ..- ... / - .... .. ... / .-- .- -.--
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Helix
 - Joined on 08-07-2007
- Posts 480
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
I WANT TO JOIN THE LIBRARY, I WANT A COPY OF THE BOOK TITLED "HOW NOT TO SHOUT"
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The Bytemaster
- Joined on 09-30-2010
- Posts 56
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
TheCPUWizard:
Regarding ALLCAPS menus, I dont mind...
Regarding nostolgia, I dont mind....
.- -.-. - ..- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- --..-- / .. / .-.. .. -.- . / -- . -. ..- ... / - .... .. ... / .-- .- -.--
Yes, they added a lot of nostalgia with Windows 8 -- like how the windows in desktop mode look like an enhanced form of Windows 3
(BTW, thanks for reminding me to renew my ham license)
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ubersoldat
 - Joined on 04-03-2008
- Posts 205
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Come on fanboys, Win8 is this close to becoming the next Vista or worst. Learn from Ubuntu fanboys ranting about Unity. It's a piece of shit, MS fucked up and live goes on. Maybe for Win9 (or whatever) MS will give its users what they want: an XBox with Solitaire, because that's the only thing Windows is good at this days.
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MiffTheFox
- Joined on 07-03-2008
- Posts 966
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Win8 is the next Vista. Windows "9" (actually Windows Blue) launches next year and will be only minor improvements from 8, but people will be praising it for adding features actually added in 8. In short, Blue will be the next 7. Microsoft is doing this on purpose.
[Sanity Not Available until further notice. The trolls have won.]
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Weng
- Joined on 03-15-2008
- Posts 1,490
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Sutherlands: bridget99: RichP: GRANTED IT DOES MAKE ME NOTSALGIC FOR MY DAYS OF WORKING ON AN AS/400.
Basically everything about Windows makes me nostalgic for AS/400.
We, too, are nostalgic for you having an AS/400.
I wish I could be nostalgiac about an AS/400. But instead, I have to put up with the monstrosities every working day of my life.
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dhromed
 - Joined on 04-13-2005
- Dutchland
- Posts 10,087
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
MiffTheFox: Win8 is the next Vista
Weird. I thought it was the next Windows.
 boomzilla: I think the obvious answer is for everyone to just stop programming.
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dhromed
- Joined on 04-13-2005
- Dutchland
- Posts 10,087
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
Weng: I wish I could be nostalgiac about an AS/400. But instead, I have to put up with the monstrosities every working day of my life.
What if you hook up a super hi-res monitor?
boomzilla: I think the obvious answer is for everyone to just stop programming.
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Weng
- Joined on 03-15-2008
- Posts 1,490
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Re: This is the sort of design sense you need to work for Microsoft
dhromed: Weng: I wish I could be nostalgiac about an AS/400. But instead, I have to put up with the monstrosities every working day of my life.
What if you hook up a super hi-res monitor?
Dunno. I don't have to see them, I just have to interface with software running on them. And in this organization, mere developers are only allowed a maximum of one 19" 4:3 CRT and one laptop screen. REAL monitors are reserved for customer service and REAL GOOD monitors are reserved for sales.
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