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Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

Last post 11-06-2012 11:15 AM by bigdogdman. 125 replies.
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  • 08-17-2011 1:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    Honestly I didn't even think the bug report was that rude anyway.

  • 08-17-2011 1:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    Sutherlands:
    Honestly I didn't even think the bug report was that rude anyway.
     

    I agree. The bug reports are concise, easy to understand, and frankly I think anyone who would consider them rude is a bit oversensitive. It's a bug report, for God sakes. It's kinda hard to sugar coat it without sounding like an idiot.

    If Blakey's bug reports were worded like the OP, that's another story. But these bug reports seemed objective and useful.

  • 08-17-2011 1:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    I'm with blakey 100% on this one. SHGetKnownFolderPath() has been around for almost half a decade and has been Microsoft's recommended way for retrieving special directory paths ever since its release. The fact that an application isn't using it is flat out inexcusable. (What's even less excusable is the fact that Java doesn't use this call and a bug regarding this was filed FOUR YEARS AGO and is still unfixed! How difficult is it for Sun to put in special-case logic for System.getProperty("user.home") to do a native call to SHGetKnownFolderPath if the OS is Windows? I reckon Oracle got ripped off.)

    Granted, this is something Java should do, but if the Eclipse developers actually cared about not fucking their users in the ass, they would've written a one-method JNI DLL that calls SHGetKnownFolderPath and bundled said DLL with the Windows binaries only. Not rocket science - they would have a (less un-) happy user, they wouldn't have an extra bug report to deal with, and they wouldn't have their software being ridiculed on a well-known site dedicated to said ridiculing.

    As for bug reports, I'd rather have a fleshed-out, well-explained, screenshotted, slightly sarcastic bug report than one with absolutely no information except "hay i luv yor app but it breaks when i poop on it"; blakey's reports are what most developers can only dream of. If I was a maintainer of an OSS project and had to dredge through 500 spurious/useless bug reports to find a single meaningful one, I wouldn't bother either, and that's why so many "minor" OSS bugs go unnoticed/unfixed. (Not blaming OSS devs here, I just wish that most users weren't tools... ideal world.)

    Finally, if people hating me gets them to write better software, then they should hate me more, reputation be damned. (Although it's rather sad if pride in their own work doesn't cause them to strive to write better software anyway.)

    <stryhf> why do people persist in continuing to write SHIT APPLICATIONS IN JAVA
    <stryhf> writing SHIT in JAVA doesn't make it ANY LESS SHITTY
    <stryhf> IT JUST MAKES IT SLOW ASS SHIT
  • 08-17-2011 1:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    The_Assimilator:
    How difficult is it for Sun to put in special-case logic for System.getProperty("user.home") to do a native call to SHGetKnownFolderPath if the OS is Windows? I think Oracle got ripped off.)
    It's a trickier problem than you assume. Remember, the assumption that Windows has a single "home directory" and all other user-related files are underneath it is a bad assumption. It's in the bug report, but here's basically the configuration of my computer:

    "home directory"- C:\Users\(username)\ (note: "home directory" means any known folders not specifically mentioned below)
    Roaming AppData- D:\Users\(username)\AppData\Roaming\ (note: the D: partition has only 300 MB of space)
    Internet Favorites- D:\Users\(username)\Favorites\
    Documents- M:\docs\ (A.K.A. \\main.corp\users\(username)\Documents\)

    That configuration is not-at-all unusual. Windows has no particular requirement that the known folders are in the same folder tree. Windows has no particular requirement that they reside on the same disk or network share. Which means there's no way to take a single path from Java and correctly store all your data in Windows. (And this was all true when Java was written in the first place-- these rules applied as much to Windows NT 4 as they do to Windows 7. This is not new.)

    If I were Oracle, and in charge of Java, here's what I'd do:

    1) Create a quick and easy set of properties in Java's "user" object that cooresspond to the Windows named folders; ideally this should populate the list from Microsoft's list, so that if Microsoft adds new named folders in the future they will just "magically appear".

    2) (Most correct:) Throw an exception if a program built for Windows attempts to access "user.home" instead of the named folders created in 1. There's no circumstance in Windows where using "user.home" is correct*.

    3) (Less correct, interrim solution:) Java should point "user.home" to some path like "%LocalAppData%\Java Runtime". The problem here is it means that *no* Java applications will be able to roam. But at least it solves all the other issues and doesn't require rebuilding older software. (Java developers who are aware of the concept of "roaming" are probably not using Java's busted-ass "user.home" path anyway.)

    I'm sure there's a dozen problems with that plan. But the real point in step 2 is to give developers writing software for Windows a gigantic sign that says, "HEY IDIOT, Windows is not Linux, you can't just treat it like Linux!" The exception would be annoying, but at least Java software would be a lot more likely to be correct.


    *) this is a simplification; obviously at the moment "user.home" points to the roaming application data directory, which in theory a Java program could use correctly. But since Java developers would likely fuck that up, like Aptana and Netbeans have fucked it up, it's still better to throw an exception and quell the error before it starts.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-17-2011 1:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    One thing I forgot to mention, and my edit window is over:
    blakeyrat:
    1) Create a quick and easy set of properties in Java's "user" object that cooresspond to the Windows named folders; ideally this should populate the list from Microsoft's list, so that if Microsoft adds new named folders in the future they will just "magically appear".
    This list must be refreshed at least every login, because Windows also has no particular requirement that the named folders stay in the same place from day to day. (They can actually be moved in real-time, but I think once-per-login is sufficient.)
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-17-2011 2:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    I didn't bother delving into the specifics of a fix because FUCK SUN. If they can't implement an obvious fix for an obvious bug in four fucking years, it ain't ever gonna happen. I now officially hate Java.

    blakeyrat:
    1) Create a quick and easy set of properties in Java's "user" object that cooresspond to the Windows named folders; ideally this should populate the list from Microsoft's list, so that if Microsoft adds new named folders in the future they will just "magically appear".

    Except that would make the JRE OS-dependant, and we can't have that now can we? Nevermind that the Mono guys implemented .NET's Environment.SpecialFolder enumeration by making the various folders point to the same place in Linux, even though semantically most of them don't mean anything; it's far easier for Linux C# devs to ignore the folders they aren't interested in, than for Windows Java devs to try determine the correct folder to use given the equivalent of a rusty spoon and a piece of string.

    blakeyrat:
    2) (Most correct:) Throw an exception if a program built for Windows attempts to access "user.home" instead of the named folders created in 1. There's no circumstance in Windows where using "user.home" is correct*.

    From a programming point of view it's correct; from a manager's point of view, it'll break every shitty Java app out there that isn't clever enough to use the correct API call. Hence it's not correct and will never make it into production, thus causing the problem to perpetuate until Java dies of autoerotic asphyxiation and people finally stop using it.

    blakeyrat:
    HEY IDIOT, Windows is not Linux, you can't just treat it like Linux!

    I'm thinking maybe they do.

    <stryhf> why do people persist in continuing to write SHIT APPLICATIONS IN JAVA
    <stryhf> writing SHIT in JAVA doesn't make it ANY LESS SHITTY
    <stryhf> IT JUST MAKES IT SLOW ASS SHIT
  • 08-17-2011 2:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    The_Assimilator:
    blakeyrat:
    HEY IDIOT, Windows is not Linux, you can't just treat it like Linux!
    I'm thinking maybe they do.
    What's the association between blakey's statement and the link? It seems to be pointing out a whole other WTF (namely, 32 vs 64-bit JDKs).
    I denounce myself for this post
  • 08-17-2011 2:51 PM In reply to

    • Zecc
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • and hasn't left since.
    • Posts 2,057

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    The_Assimilator:
    FUCK SUN
    They were absorbed by Oracle, so... done.

     

    If mixed metaphors were illegal, I'd be having an indigestion.
    typeof NaN == 'number'
    var ò_ó, ಠ⁔ಠ, ᄒᆺᄒ, ᅙᅳᅙ, ᖛᨓᖜ, ꖴᅩꖴ, ఠᨋఠ; // Naming your variables is serious business
  • 08-17-2011 3:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    boomzilla:
    The_Assimilator:
    blakeyrat:
    HEY IDIOT, Windows is not Linux, you can't just treat it like Linux!
    I'm thinking maybe they do.
    What's the association between blakey's statement and the link? It seems to be pointing out a whole other WTF (namely, 32 vs 64-bit JDKs).

    If Java can't figure out user.home on Linux, the platform that it's pretty much built for, it's no surprise it can't determine the correct value in Windows.

    Yes, I know that's a low blow, tenuous connection, etc. but I'm feeling ornery tonight. Stupid weather going from sub-teens temps at 8am to high 20s by 11am (Celsius, yankee imperialists!) does not make my hayfever happy.

    <stryhf> why do people persist in continuing to write SHIT APPLICATIONS IN JAVA
    <stryhf> writing SHIT in JAVA doesn't make it ANY LESS SHITTY
    <stryhf> IT JUST MAKES IT SLOW ASS SHIT
  • 08-17-2011 3:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    The_Assimilator:
    Except that would make the JRE OS-dependant, and we can't have that now can we? Nevermind that the Mono guys implemented .NET's Environment.SpecialFolder enumeration by making the various folders point to the same place in Linux, even though semantically most of them don't mean anything; it's far easier for Linux C# devs to ignore the folders they aren't interested in, than for Windows Java devs to try determine the correct folder to use given the equivalent of a rusty spoon and a piece of string.
    That is a much better solution, but I rejected it for Java because I wager something like 80% of Java apps are server apps that will only run on Linux. There's no point in making those apps change, since they aren't broken.

    Of course, I'm pretty sure even Linux-based OSes have the concept of "local application data" vs. "roaming application data"-- if so, "user.home" is a flawed concept in Linux as well.

    The_Assimilator:
    blakeyrat:
    2) (Most correct:) Throw an exception if a program built for Windows attempts to access "user.home" instead of the named folders created in 1. There's no circumstance in Windows where using "user.home" is correct*.

    From a programming point of view it's correct; from a manager's point of view, it'll break every shitty Java app out there that isn't clever enough to use the correct API call. Hence it's not correct and will never make it into production, thus causing the problem to perpetuate until Java dies of autoerotic asphyxiation and people finally stop using it.

    That's why you do number 3 for the next release, and move to number 2 later. (Of course, number 3 presents issues too: if you upgrade your JRE, suddenly an app on your computer might be looking for settings in the wrong place... so... it's fucked all around.)

    What really shocks me, the more I think about it, is that Java was developed after NT... why wasn't this correct from the get-go? It boggles the mind.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-17-2011 3:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    blakeyrat:
    Of course, I'm pretty sure even Linux-based OSes have the concept of "local application data" vs. "roaming application data"-- if so, "user.home" is a flawed concept in Linux as well.
    My understanding is that the way a roaming profile is handled is that the entire home directory structure is mapped out to a network share, and you sync users/passwords over your network. So there is no concept of local and roaming directories. You might sync up a laptop's disk with the network or something, but again, it's all in a single place, which always looks like $HOME to programs.
    I denounce myself for this post
  • 08-17-2011 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    The_Assimilator:
    boomzilla:
    The_Assimilator:
    blakeyrat:
    HEY IDIOT, Windows is not Linux, you can't just treat it like Linux!
    I'm thinking maybe they do.
    What's the association between blakey's statement and the link? It seems to be pointing out a whole other WTF (namely, 32 vs 64-bit JDKs).

    If Java can't figure out user.home on Linux, the platform that it's pretty much built for, it's no surprise it can't determine the correct value in Windows.

    Yes, I know that's a low blow, tenuous connection, etc. but I'm feeling ornery tonight. Stupid weather going from sub-teens temps at 8am to high 20s by 11am (Celsius, yankee imperialists!) does not make my hayfever happy.

    I'd take that over 108 (that's Farenheit, non-yankee imperialists! (42 C))
  • 08-17-2011 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    boomzilla:
    My understanding is that the way a roaming profile is handled is that the entire home directory structure is mapped out to a network share, and you sync users/passwords over your network. So there is no concept of local and roaming directories. You might sync up a laptop's disk with the network or something, but again, it's all in a single place, which always looks like $HOME to programs.
    How does that work if the user is offline? Edit: Oh I missed "sync files". Hm.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-17-2011 4:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    blakeyrat:
    How does that work if the user is offline? Edit: Oh I missed "sync files". Hm.

    Also, you've reached the limit of my knowledge on the subject, which was gained moments ago via google, and not being a sysadmin type, I'm not real familiar with any of it. If I had to guess, though, I'd say such a set up is probably very rare, if only because there probably aren't many substantial networks of linux computers where this would be important.

    I also wonder how common roaming profiles really are in corporate networks. Especially as relates to how well that sort of thing scales vs the benefit. In a small lab where you never know which machine you might use it might make a lot of sense, but it seems like mostly you'd be using a single machine at your desk or whatever.

    I denounce myself for this post
  • 08-17-2011 4:20 PM In reply to

    • ender
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    boomzilla:
    I also wonder how common roaming profiles really are in corporate networks.
    I'd expect that rather than roaming profiles (which are slow any prone to breakage), folders are redirected to network instead (which is somewhat faster, but still prone to breakage, though somewhat less than roaming profiles).
    Because 10 billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral... it arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.
  • 08-17-2011 4:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    boomzilla:
    I also wonder how common roaming profiles really are in corporate networks.
    Microsoft's been trying to scale them back for awhile now. Obviously they're not going to just say "NO LONGER SUPPORTED!!" but I think they've been discouraging it for new networks. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    Oddly, our office didn't have this setup until recently-- our old network setup just mapped the entire profile to the network and used Microsoft's "Sync Center" for laptops. (Basically exactly equivalent to what you think Linux network do.) This new setup is something the Frenchies put on our computers when they imaged everybody with Windows 7.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-17-2011 4:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    frits:
    Note the combination of setup wizard, SSH key generation, and terminal jokeying.
    And a wonderful new computer term is born.

  • 08-17-2011 4:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    "blakeyrat:
    For some strange reason, the entry isn't under "Aptana" and doesn't even say "Aptana" on it. It's under "Appcelerator."
     
    pbean:
    Yes that's something that has bothered me for ages, every since I first started using Windows. Why the hell do people think that using a Start menu entry with the name of the company who made the product is handy? With games I used to have this a lot.
    I believe this is the officially recommended-by-Microsoft® method that was introduced beginning with Windows 95.   Programs are installed to:   Program Files -->  Vendor Name -->  ProgramName   with similar naming convention for the Start Menu.  I guess nobody bothered to think ahead a little bit and notice the obvious flaw in this.

  • 08-17-2011 4:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    frits:
    They made the decision to jump on the Git bandwagon for who knows what dumb reason and now have a conundrum because it's not an easy installation. 
    But ..... Git was created by the same dudes that created Linux.   It has to be awesome!

  • 08-17-2011 5:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    El_Heffe:
    What? ... Why?
    I hate tags

  • 08-18-2011 2:09 PM In reply to

    • ender
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    derula:
    What? ... Why?
    Because BitKeeper revoked the license it's given to Linux developers, and the Linus didn't want to continue working on Linux until he had a new revision control system.
    Because 10 billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral... it arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.
  • 08-18-2011 2:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    El_Heffe:

    frits:
    They made the decision to jump on the Git bandwagon for who knows what dumb reason and now have a conundrum because it's not an easy installation. 
    But ..... Git was created by the same dudes that created Linux.   It has to be awesome!

    I actually had a professor for one of my Master's courses use that as a justification as to why we should learn Git.  "OMG it's going to be HUGE!  Everyone will be using it soon because it was developed by the creators of Linux.  It's here to stay!  I love Drupal!"  He even mandated that none of our school work counted unless it was submitted to a central repository on GitHub.

  • 08-18-2011 2:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    El_Heffe:

    frits:
    Note the combination of setup wizard, SSH key generation, and terminal jokeying.
    And a wonderful new computer term is born.

    FML.  Will I ever learn to spell?

  • 08-18-2011 2:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    frits:
    I actually had a professor for one of my Master's courses use that as a justification as to why we should learn Git.  "OMG it's going to be HUGE!  Everyone will be using it soon because it was developed by the creators of Linux.  It's here to stay!  I love Drupal!"  He even mandated that none of our school work counted unless it was submitted to a central repository on GitHub.
    Those who can't, TEACH!

    This will in no way cause a huge pointless debate.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-18-2011 3:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    ender:
    derula:
    What? ... Why?
    Because BitKeeper revoked the license it's given to Linux developers, and the Linus didn't want to continue working on Linux until he had a new revision control system.
    Ah. That's a nice story. Thanks.
    I hate tags

  • 08-18-2011 3:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    This will in no way cause a huge pointless debate.
     

    Or an obligatory link to Taylor Mali's poetry slam.

  • 08-18-2011 4:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    Those who can't, TEACH!

    This will in no way cause a huge pointless debate.

    Actually,more correctly it's

    "Those who can't, become full-time tenured professors and emphatically do not teach". I've never heard of anyone actually learning anything from anyone called Professor. It's all book-learned or self-discovery or from some other source they were forced to seek out.

    Additionally:

    Those who are trying to, become TA's and teach.

    Those who can but have a masochistic streak become adjuncts and teach.

    Those who probably could but are too unhinged to bother become grade school teachers and teach.

  • 08-18-2011 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    derula:
    ender:
    derula:
    What? ... Why?
    Because BitKeeper revoked the license it's given to Linux developers, and the Linus didn't want to continue working on Linux until he had a new revision control system.
    Ah. That's a nice story. Thanks.
    There were two versions of Bitkeeper -- a commercial version and a free version.  Linus Torvalds began using the free version because he felt that it was was best free (as in price) tool available.  Unfortunately, the religious extremists only cared that Bitkeeper wasn't open source and therefore was evil.  According to this version of the story some people were working on reverse-engineering Bitkeeper, which pissed off the company that makes Bitkeeper and so they eliminated the free version.

  • 08-18-2011 5:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    Weng:
    "Those who can't, become full-time tenured professors and emphatically do not teach".
    Those who can't what? Those who can't form proper sentences with verbs?
  • 08-18-2011 5:07 PM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,906

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    El_Heffe:
    What happened there?
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 08-18-2011 5:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    Weng:
    I've never heard of anyone actually learning anything from anyone called Professor.
    I had a few. One in particular stands out. He was generally regarded by faculty and students alike as the best teacher in the math department. The year I took it, he was teaching Real Analysis, which ended up being my favorite classes of my college career.
    I denounce myself for this post
  • 08-18-2011 5:41 PM In reply to

    • ender
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    El_Heffe:
    There were two versions of Bitkeeper -- a commercial version and a free version.  Linus Torvalds began using the free version because he felt that it was was best free (as in price) tool available.  Unfortunately, the religious extremists only cared that Bitkeeper wasn't open source and therefore was evil.  According to this version of the story some people were working on reverse-engineering Bitkeeper, which pissed off the company that makes Bitkeeper and so they eliminated the free version.
    That's what I actually heard, too - IIRC, the free version specifically had a clause that it was to stay free as long as nobody tried to reverse-engineer the protocol. Andrew Tridgell (best known as author of Samba) decided to reverse engineer it anyway (which IIRC, pissed off Linus).
    Because 10 billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral... it arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.
  • 08-18-2011 5:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    El_Heffe:
    There were two versions of Bitkeeper -- a commercial version and a free version.  Linus Torvalds began using the free version because he felt that it was was best free (as in price) tool available.  Unfortunately, the religious extremists only cared that Bitkeeper wasn't open source and therefore was evil.  According to this version of the story some people were working on reverse-engineering Bitkeeper, which pissed off the company that makes Bitkeeper and so they eliminated the free version.
     

    Those extremists are at least better than other religious extremists I've seen in the news. At least they didn't bomb Bitkeeper's corporate headquarters and instead made their own open source source control.

  • 08-19-2011 9:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    boomzilla:
    The year I took it, he was teaching Real Analysis
    Math is a special case - the only truly viable career path for that skillset is teaching it.

  • 08-19-2011 2:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    I thought what got termed as "reverse engineering" bitkeeper was that someone tried to telnet into it on a whim, and it worked, and he typed "help," and it gave him a command listing. Or something. Maybe I'm thinking of a different thing.

    Back on topic: I've been using Aptana as an Eclipse plugin for a while (since around when Blakeyrat liked its Javascript intellisense, I think). In my opinion, the extra few things that have to be done manually to set up the Eclipse SDK and install Aptana as a plugin instead of installing Aptana standalone are the better end of that tradeoff, but setup is still something of a hump to get past. However, I'd say it's still about as good as Eclipse-based programs get once it's set up (except maybe for Tasktop), so if they do get the path business straightened out in the next couple releases, you might find it worth trying again.

    "There's TWO continents called America.

    RARE BLAKEYRAT PEDANTIC DICKWEED POST!" -BlakeyRat

    "Java is the abstract base class that all WTFs like this inherit from. Java is like the java.lang.Object of the WTF world." - MorbiusWilters
  • 08-19-2011 4:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

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    PJH:
    El_Heffe:
    What happened there?
    Appears to be another WTF involving Community Server.  Instead of that link pointing to the proper location:  http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/44147     it somehow got changed to:  http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/

     Once again TRWTF is Community Server.

  • 08-19-2011 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    kilroo:
    I thought what got termed as "reverse engineering" bitkeeper was that someone tried to telnet into it on a whim, and it worked, and he typed "help," and it gave him a command listing. Or something. Maybe I'm thinking of a different thing.
    There is disagreement about what actually happned, which is why I phrased my original post as "according to this version of the story".   The Bitkeeper people claim that Andrew Tridgell was reverse engineering Bitkeeper in violation of the license.  Tridgell claims: "I wrote a tool that is interoperable with BitKeeper.  I did not use BitKeeper at all in writing this tool and thus was never subject to the BitKeeper license. I developed the tool in a completely ethical and legal manner."

     

  • 08-19-2011 4:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    El_Heffe:

    PJH:
    El_Heffe:
    What happened there?
    Appears to be another WTF involving Community Server.  Instead of that link pointing to the proper location:  http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/44147     it somehow got changed to:  http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/

     Once again TRWTF is Community Server.

    Uh-huh... is this like how my wife now blames anything being left out on our 1-yr-old when she previously had nobody to blame?
  • 08-19-2011 4:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    kilroo:
    I thought what got termed as "reverse engineering" bitkeeper was that someone tried to telnet into it on a whim, and it worked, and he typed "help," and it gave him a command listing. Or something. Maybe I'm thinking of a different thing.
    Relevant links gleaned from the Wikipedia bitkeeper article: BitKeeper and Linux: The end of the road?, How Tridge reverse engineered BitKeeper and Torvalds knifes Tridgell: Kernel source row turns nasty.

  • 08-19-2011 4:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    El_Heffe:
    Tridgell claims: "I wrote a tool that is interoperable with BitKeeper.  I did not use BitKeeper at all in writing this tool and thus was never subject to the BitKeeper license. I developed the tool in a completely ethical and legal manner."
    How is that possible? Either he's a liar, or he has impressive psychic abilities.

    Or it introduces one of those weird paradoxes, how could he know it was interoperable with BitKeeper without ever using BitKeeper?

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-19-2011 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    El_Heffe:
    Tridgell claims: "I wrote a tool that is interoperable with BitKeeper.  I did not use BitKeeper at all in writing this tool and thus was never subject to the BitKeeper license. I developed the tool in a completely ethical and legal manner."
    How is that possible?  he has impressive psychic abilities.

    Seems like you answered your own question.

    Also, it's possible he means "use" in whatever the sense in the EULA is.

  • 08-19-2011 7:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    El_Heffe:
    Tridgell claims: "I wrote a tool that is interoperable with BitKeeper.  I did not use BitKeeper at all in writing this tool and thus was never subject to the BitKeeper license. I developed the tool in a completely ethical and legal manner."
    How is that possible? Either he's a liar, or he has impressive psychic abilities.

    Or it introduces one of those weird paradoxes, how could he know it was interoperable with BitKeeper without ever using BitKeeper?

    According to Larry McVoy, BitKeeper's primary author, Tridgell wrote a program that could "could pull stuff out of BK trees" without actually using Bitkeeper.  This allegedly was done by "reverse engineering" of Bitkeeper.  So I guess it depends on your definition of "using" Bitkeeper.

     

  • 08-19-2011 10:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    El_Heffe:
    According to Larry McVoy, BitKeeper's primary author, Tridgell wrote a program that could "could pull stuff out of BK trees" without actually using Bitkeeper.  This allegedly was done by "reverse engineering" of Bitkeeper.  So I guess it depends on your definition of "using" Bitkeeper.
    That... doesn't actually change anything. It just makes the question slightly more specific: "how can you pull data from BitKeeper without using BitKeeper?"
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-20-2011 3:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    El_Heffe:
    According to Larry McVoy, BitKeeper's primary author, Tridgell wrote a program that could "could pull stuff out of BK trees" without actually using Bitkeeper.  This allegedly was done by "reverse engineering" of Bitkeeper.  So I guess it depends on your definition of "using" Bitkeeper.
    That... doesn't actually change anything. It just makes the question slightly more specific: "how can you pull data from BitKeeper without using BitKeeper?"
     

    I read somewhere that a bit keeper user can terminal in on the BK port and from a text menu, request a clone of the repository.  As far as I understand it Tridge then pulled data out of the local repository file stream.

    Although he may (or an accomplice) have connected without a BitKeeper client, I think just connecting to a server port means you accept some conditions.

    Springs to mind the old argument "is walking through an open (paper thin?) door breaking and entering or trespass?"

  • 08-20-2011 6:37 AM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    Helix:
    Springs to mind the old argument "is walking through an open (paper thin?) door breaking and entering or trespass?"
     

    Intent.

    Which leads to subjective discussions on what constitutes "obvious" and what doesn't.

    "Was the this paper door open?"

    "It was not ajar, but it wasn't locked either."

    "It was someone's private home."

    "I did not know that. It wasn't immediately obvious to me"


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 08-20-2011 11:07 AM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact
    Helix:
    I read somewhere that a bit keeper user can terminal in on the BK port and from a text menu, request a clone of the repository.  As far as I understand it Tridge then pulled data out of the local repository file stream.
    Yes, but that's still using BitKeeper because the server is BitKeeper. He's either pulling some Bill Clinton shit and trying to redefine the word "use", or he's a liar.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 08-20-2011 1:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    blakeyrat:
    Helix:
    I read somewhere that a bit keeper user can terminal in on the BK port and from a text menu, request a clone of the repository.  As far as I understand it Tridge then pulled data out of the local repository file stream.
    Yes, but that's still using BitKeeper because the server is BitKeeper. He's either pulling some Bill Clinton shit and trying to redefine the word "use", or he's a liar.
     

     

    That's what i thought too - maybe he got a friend to pull it off for him?

  • 08-20-2011 1:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    dhromed:

    Helix:
    Springs to mind the old argument "is walking through an open (paper thin?) door breaking and entering or trespass?"
     

    Intent.

     

     

    exactly - if it was rice paper then maybe they intended for people to eat their way in?

     

  • 08-21-2011 6:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    Helix:
    exactly - if it was rice paper then maybe they intended for people to eat their way in?
     

    Nutritious crime!


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 08-21-2011 4:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Here's a shocker: Eclipse-based Aptana Studio sucks shit!

    Locked Reply Contact

    dhromed:
    "I did not know that. It wasn't immediately obvious to me"
     

    Slightly relevant story: I found out that one of the houses I grew up in had an "Antiques and Collectibles" store sign on it, complete with a parking lot with spaces painted on it and what appeared to be a restaurant attached to it with a full breakfast and lunch menu. Intrigued and curious to get some nostalgic memories, I decided to check it out. I entered the house to find a number of antique knick-knacks and other items (mostly tacky stuff), but otherwise the house was laid out much like a residential home. Plus there didn't seem to be a restaurant anywhere. As I was trying to figure out what was going on, I heard footsteps coming down the stairs followed by a startled shriek. When the woman at the base of the stairs asked me who the hell I was, I said, "Well, er, I thought this was a store and a restaurant."

    She looked at me like I was an idiot and said, "Why would I put a store and a restaurant in a suburban col-de-sac?"

    I said, "I was thinking the same thing, but to be honest, it's just as unusual to make your house LOOK like a store and a restaurant."

    I was asked to leave the premises and never come back. It was still nice to see at least the bottom flloor again, although it was completely redone, the overall layout of the house was the same.

    But, anyways, that's probably one of the only times I'd think "I didn't know that." excuse would truly be considered in court. Luckily, I didn't see if it would work because she didn't call the cops on me.

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