The theme de jour (that's theme of the day ;) ) appears to be bad HR experiences, so I'll take my turn harping on them.

In 2000, I and 11 other college graduates started a "College Graduate Trainee" (CGT) program at a large company.  We all started on Tuesday May 30th (since Monday was Memorial Day in the States.)  As part of the 1/2 day of HR orientation meetings, we were told that vacation is given based on the number of years an employee has as of June 1st. One to 5 years of work was 2 weeks, 5-10 was 3 weeks and 10+ was 4 weeks.  For employees with less than 1 year of work, the literature stated, they earned 1 day of vacation for each month worked, up to a maximum of 10 days.

In addition to the vacation, each employee, regardless of time served, got 3 personal days on January 1st each year.

 After these meetings the CGTs all went to their respective groups and began working, but would occasionally bump into each other throughout the year.  Around October or November, I started hearing of several CGTs taking vacation days.  Especially around Thanksgiving and then again before Christmas.  Seeing as I was new to town and didn't have any big plans I kept saving my vacation, thinking I would use it as a lump sum.   Around February or so, I had switched groups, which was part of the CGT program, and my new supervisor wasn't sure how to handle my vacation since I didn't techinically work for him, but the CGT supervisor.  So I emailed HR.  The response I got back was that vacation earned at 1 day / month was not awarded until June 1st.  At which time all CGTs would be getting 2 weeks, since we would be employed > 1 year at that time. So I put any vacation ideas on hold.

 In May, my brother-in-law was leaving for the  Air Force, and my wife wanted to make the 6 hour drive to see him befor he left.  I emailed HR and clarified that "All employees get 3 personal days."  The answer was "Yes, they do."  So I went to take my 3 days and take an extended weekend to make the trip.  I was then told that since I had not yet been employeed a year, I would only get a pro-rated number of vacation days, in addition, I would not get those days until I had been there a year (i.e. May 30th).  Despite me replying with her exact words when she stated that all employees, including CGTs had 3 days of personal time, I got nowhere.

Thankfully, my supervisor was nice enough to cut a deal with me and let me take 1.5 days off even though it wouldn't be reported, because I couldn't use that charge number.

 I suppose, in the end, TRWTF is that I asked for permission rather than forgiveness like the rest of the CGTs

taylonr:

The theme de jour (that's theme of the day ;) ) [...]

 

No, it's "Le thème du jour"! 

Please stop using french when you don't speak it... 

taylonr:

I suppose, in the end, TRWTF is that I asked for permission rather than forgiveness like the rest of the CGTs

I think the real wtf is this:

taylonr:

vacation is given based on the number of years an employee has as of June 1st. One to 5 years of work was 2 weeks, 5-10 was 3 weeks and 10+ was 4 weeks.  For employees with less than 1 year of work, the literature stated, then earned 1 day of vacation for each month worked, up to a maximum of 10 days

I get 27 days. Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

dhromed:

I get 27 days. Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

 

Two weeks paid vacation is the norm for most employees in the USA. 

wow. 

dhromed:

I get 27 days. Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

I can't speak for the OP, but in the US, 10 days is typical. My current employer gives 2 weeks for 1-3 years of employment, 3 weeks for 3-5 years, and 4 weeks for 5+ years. We also get 10 holidays (8 "official" and 2 floaters).

Some employers only give 1 week to start with, but that's usually the lower wage places.

Hot damn. No wonder you're all popping caffeine pills.

 

dhromed:

Hot damn. No wonder you're all popping caffeine pills.

QFT.  I'm sure places around here would be in an uproar if an employee had  27 days off. They'll argue that they're giving too much leisure time. If I remember my history lessons, back in the days of the Industrial Revolution, people in the US hardly got any leisure time at all, so I guess we are better off today.

 Yeah, right now I have 10 days vacation, 8 holidays that the company decides, 1 holiday I decide and 5 days of sick pay, so 24 total days off in a year

 

taylonr:

The response I got back was that vacation earned at 1 day / month was not awarded until June 1st.  At which time all CGTs would be getting 2 weeks, since we would be employed > 1 year at that time. So I put any vacation ideas on hold.

 

 

I was in a similar program when I started here (almost a year ago!) and I'm still waiting to see if my 2008 vacation days will get credited to me on my 1 year NCS anniversary. Six more days...

 

Also, in response to Dhromed's post: Do you live in France or something? I hear that the French government mandates a minimum number of vacation days per year (which is awesome). Despite the fact that the average member of the US workforce gets 10 paid vacation days per year, many people actually elect not to take them, and in total, the US workforce elects not to take something like one billion vacation days per year. To me, that's TRWTF.

FWIW, I get 20 vacation days, 6 sick days, 2 personal days, and 8 company holidays/year after 1 year.

As for whether or not you are permitted... I always tell (not ask) my boss a couple weeks and then again a few days in advance, and then take the days. If there's a rpoblem, I can always argue with HR. The worst they can do is dock you.

Remember, there is NOTHING that will ever happen at work that is anywhere near as important as any goofing around you might do on a day off!

 

snoofle:

Remember, there is NOTHING that will ever happen at work that is anywhere near as important as any goofing around you might do on a day off!

 

I concur wholeheartedly. 

Where I am, I'm forced by law to take ten consecutive days vacation. Which is interesting, because I didn't want to.

These have to be working days too. I'm going to have to skip a Friday sometime in August because there's a holiday in one of the two following weeks (meaning only 9 working days).

That Friday had to be deduced from another week vacation I had this month. So, that week I only came on Wednesday. What a productive day that was... =P

Dhromed lives in the netherlands i think, where a similar law is in effect. The minumum is 20 days i believe, with the added side law that the employer is required to at least grant you 2 weeks ( 10 work days) of continues vacation a year. Doing so is ofcourse optional.

But most people, especially those without kids hardly take days off, personally i will use about 7 or 8 days a year. The days you don't take can either (depending on employer) be taken to the next year, or paid for hours worked. ( although there are tax laws surrounding that, which change almost every year.)

That's one of the great things about my company, we get 19 days off (they don't differentiate between vacation days and sick days) which goes up by 5 days for every 5 years you are with the company, to a max of 29.  On top of that, since we are in the banking industry, we get all bank holidays off, except columbus day. So, with 3 years here, I get 28 days off a year

Here in Ireland the standard is 20 days holidays + public holidays(9 in total) + (in some cases) bank holidays + up to 20 sick days (generally payed for by the state).

Management get a lot more: My mother for example gets 40 days holidays + 9 public holidays + up to 20 sick days... 

dhromed:

I get 27 days. Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

 

My first job out of college was as a contractor to a major U.S. automaker.  For my first year I had zero days of vacation.  After that I earned vacation at the rate of 5 days per year.

I had about 5 paid holidays per year plus two weeks around Christmas when the manufacturing plants close and I was considered temporarily unemployed.

God I hate how little personal time we get in the United States.  Ten days per year is standard with a few more if you stay with one employer for 5+ years. 

My first job out of college was for a computer chip assembler.  This was just as that kind of work was being sent overseas and the company was struggling to stay in business.  They shut down for a week or two every Christmastime too, with the excuse that all of the customers were closed down.  They forced everybody to use earned vacation time for these shutdowns.  I got lucky by being hired in April or May, so by the time the season rolled around, I had squeaked in with 5 earned days that I could use.   Just.

A coworker wasn't so lucky.  He was hired after me, in October, so by the time we shut down, he had something like one day.  HR so sweetly told him he could borrow the days from next year's accrual.  (Actually, it was either that or quit/be terminated.)  So he basically started out a week in the hole on vacation time.  Nasty, nasty HR hobbitses.

 I get 25 PTO days (personal time off) that includes sick days (I never call in sick) and scheduled time off. It's the most generous I've ever seen and goes a long way toward keeping me at the company. With the weekends I generally take off the month of September. 

dhromed:

Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

 
Strange as it may sound, there are those who believe that individuals are responsible for their own work arrangements.  Aside from banning actual sweatshops (which in and of itself is not a universally-accepted net positive), contracts are between employees and employers, not the government.  People are free to negotiate for more vacation time if they want it, and many employers are often happy to give it in lieu of a higher salary or wage.  The employment standards we do have are primarily to keep paying jobs more attractive than welfare.

I realize that 4-6 weeks of vacation time is common all across Europe, but that has other consequences, and not everyone believes in vacation as an end unto itself.  Some people actually want to work and don't like sitting around.  Other people may not love their jobs, but really need the money.  To be honest, I don't see too many people here wishing that the government would intervene and put a stop to all those evil people working for too many days.

Honestly, you don't think that all those extra vacation days are free, do you?  It kills company productivity, which either results in lower pay or poorer conditions. 

Aaron:

dhromed:

Seriously, isn't max 10 days off per year illegal or something? Or do you live in China?

 
Strange as it may sound, there are those who believe that individuals are responsible for their own work arrangements.  Aside from banning actual sweatshops (which in and of itself is not a universally-accepted net positive), contracts are between employees and employers, not the government.  People are free to negotiate for more vacation time if they want it, and many employers are often happy to give it in lieu of a higher salary or wage.  The employment standards we do have are primarily to keep paying jobs more attractive than welfare.

I realize that 4-6 weeks of vacation time is common all across Europe, but that has other consequences, and not everyone believes in vacation as an end unto itself.  Some people actually want to work and don't like sitting around.  Other people may not love their jobs, but really need the money.  To be honest, I don't see too many people here wishing that the government would intervene and put a stop to all those evil people working for too many days.

Honestly, you don't think that all those extra vacation days are free, do you?  It kills company productivity, which either results in lower pay or poorer conditions. 

 

WTF?!  Are you a communist or something?

Dude:

WTF?!  Are you a communist or something?

 
Yes.  Didn't you know?  All communists believe that the government shouldn't interfere in the private sector.

Oh wait... communists believe that there shouldn't be a private sector, period.  I was thinking of the other thing... um, what's that phrase, hmmm, let's see... free market? 

In New Zealand, the minimum holiday was 3 weeks annual leave (not including public holidays and sick leave), but it was raised to 4 last year or the year before (don't remember exactly when).  There was much rejoicing at the accouncement - except from my boss at the time, whose leave went up to 4 weeks (long service reward) on the same day anyway.

I've never once been refused a day off, and the only time I was asked to take unpaid leave was when I was planning a month-long trip to Europe and would be about 2 weeks over what I had left.

I believe the law is there to protect those workers who can't negotiate for themselves, or who don't know it's possible. Same reason it's illegal (few prosecutions, but debate every year) to open shop on Good Friday.  That one's probably going to change soon though.

As for time off reducing productivity... what a load of bollocks.  People here (talking about salary employees only - not per hour) tend to work when it's needed, not based on the clock.  If that means late nights and weekends every so often, that's fine - because it goes both ways.  And they say change is as good as a holiday - but a holiday is even better.  It reminds people they're still people - not robots.  Generally, unused holiday rolls over but can usually be paid out.  But only 10 days a year - that would be a nightmare!

Because my edit time limit expired...

Annual leave is accrued throughout the year - so 6 months after you start, you have half, on your anniversary you have it all assuming you haven't used any.  Time off before the right number of days has accumulated isn't a problem - and least I've never heard of it.  Oh, and leave isn't allowed to be refused without good reason (not sure of the exact wording).

U.S. businesses tend to have rather Machiavellian attitudes.  I read a book about dealing with company politics once where the author suggested never taking more than a week off at a time, even if you've earned alot more.  Her reasoning was that if they realized that they did just fine without you, it must mean they don't really need you.

Personally, I don't think I would work for that kind of manager.