Changes at TDWTF: Goodbye Community Server
-
@Remy Porter said:
The Daily WTF is turning 10 this year. Like any ten year old, that means that it's time to start undergoing some changes.
TIL TDWTF is a girl
-
My 2p...
Like most people here I have a soft spot for CS with all its well-documented shortcomings. It feels as if it's ours so I'll be sad to see it go. This isn't really a good enough reason to keep it though, especially as it will never be updated.
I don't mind infinite scrolling in situations that are, to all intents and purposes, infinite such as Facebook's news feed; I don't really need to know I'm on page 1 of 812 there. I would prefer pagination for the comments section here though but I am happy to give infinite scroll a try if it can be changed or configured later if it's a bad fit.
I too would like my post count (modest though it is) and joined date to be brought through if possible.
-
@Ben L. said:
@Remy Porter said:
The Daily WTF is turning 10 this year. Like any ten year old, that means that it's time to start undergoing some changes.
TIL TDWTF is a girl
TIL only girls experience puberty.
-
@joe.edwards said:
@Ben L. said:
@Remy Porter said:
The Daily WTF is turning 10 this year. Like any ten year old, that means that it's time to start undergoing some changes.
TIL TDWTF is a girl
TIL only girls experience puberty.
TIL jokes have the same burden of proof as the theory of evolution
-
Okay, I've clearly been too busy these last two weeks, because WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
-
Hey guys. My forum just emailed me:
So I went to https://[my forum]/admin/docker and clicked the "update" button.
-
The newest version of Discourse is <font size="7">0.9?</font>
<font size="7">WTF?</font>
-
@El_Heffe said:
The newest version of Discourse is <font size="7">0.9?</font>
<font size="7">WTF?</font>
No, it's 0.9.8.5. Just because Discourse didn't hop on the Browser Version Bandwagon doesn't mean it's too early to use it.
-
Foobar2000 had been at 0.9xxxxx forever, until the maker finally decided last year to boost it into 1.0.
Version numbers are meaningless.
-
@dhromed said:
Version numbers are meaningless.
Technically, yes. You can call something any version number you want.However, there has always been something of a gentlemen's agreement about version numbers. You knew that version 3 represented a big change from version 2, version 3.1 was a small change from version 3.0, version 3.1.1 was an even smaller change, and so. Except for Google (and now Firefox) most people have followed those conventions and as a result, version numbers were actually meaningful.. Not perfect, but useful.
To me, Zero Point Something says "Yeah, our software is such crap that we are too embarrassed to even call it version 1.0"
But that's just my opinion.
-
@El_Heffe said:
To me, Zero Point Something says "Yeah, our software is such crap that we are too embarrassed to even call it version 1.0"
What do you consider the "software"? Is it just the code? Or the code, documentation, support policies, pricing, account management, etc.?
I think Version 1.0 generally means "commercially ready," and that means all of the non-code aspects of the software need to be commercially ready as well.
Based on some testing (and seeing the existing installations at BoingBoing, How-to-Geek, etc), I'm confident the Discourse code is commercially ready. But the rest is not. "0.9" seems a nice representation of this.
-
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
pricing
If $0 is not a commercially viable price, what would you suggest? I'll sell you Discourse for any non-negative price you choose!
-
@Ben L. said:
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
pricing
If $0 is not a commercially viable price, what would you suggest? I'll sell you Discourse for any non-negative price you choose!
A link to GitHub is worth exactly $0 to me. I'd gladly pay for...
- Hosting & Routine Updates
- Import list of users (Name, Email, Post Count)
- Integration with Articles and Featured comments
- A Widget to replace the “Sidebar WTFs” we have on front page
- CSS/Styling
... so, if you can do that, name a price!
-
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
name a price!
100 billion dollars!
-
So when is this gonna happen!!!!!
-
At this point the anticipation seems worse than the actual cutover.
-
We have no hard date. We have a test instance that we've been experimenting with. There are also a lot of other balls in the air at the moment- because changing our forum and comments system is only [i]one[/i] of the upcoming changes. OMINOUS CHORD
-
So it'll never happen. I know a WTF in the works when I see one.
-
Hey, is the ability to not mess my emails whenever Ben L. post a retarded picture going to be in Discourse? Because that is a feature we need
-
@El_Heffe said:
We used to reserve even major version numbers for "roll-up" of all the forked development that our sites overseas insisted on. Versions 6, 8, 10 never saw the light of day except in the shop, and we rolled the actual prod releases out in the odd numbers. All the versions 5.8, 5.8.1, 5.8.2, 5.8.2.j, 5.9, 5.9.1, 5.9,1.w etc got merged into 6.0, then 7.0 was whatever was in 6.0 plus whatever tweaks they couldn't stopping wetting themselves long enough to wait for us to implement properly. A year or two later, all the various 7.whatever releases got rolled up into 8.0, and 9.0 eventually went into release.@dhromed said:
Version numbers are meaningless.
Technically, yes. You can call something any version number you want.However, there has always been something of a gentlemen's agreement about version numbers. You knew that version 3 represented a big change from version 2, version 3.1 was a small change from version 3.0, version 3.1.1 was an even smaller change, and so. Except for Google (and now Firefox) most people have followed those conventions and as a result, version numbers were actually meaningful.. Not perfect, but useful.
But at least the numbers usually went up over time. Last week every time I'd start up "Free YouTube Downloader" it brings up v3.5.184.0, followed by a dialogue box asking me if I'd like to upgrade to 3.5.187. If I clicked on "Yes", it sent me to a webpage where I could pick up the installer for 3.5.181.
-
-
@dkf said:
@Remy Porter said:
hard date
@Remy Porter said:a lot of other balls
I'm sure it's just taking a long time to penetrate the code base and thrust new features in. After that, they'll have to ram the server hard and see if it can handle a large load.
-
@joe.edwards said:
@dkf said:
And then take a nap.@Remy Porter said:
I'm sure it's just taking a long time to penetrate the code base and thrust new features in. After that, they'll have to ram the server hard and see if it can handle a large load.hard date
@Remy Porter said:a lot of other balls
-
@joe.edwards said:
@dkf said:
@Remy Porter said:
I'm sure it's just taking a long time to penetrate the code base and thrust new features in. After that, they'll have to ram the server hard and see if it can handle a large load.hard date
@Remy Porter said:a lot of other balls
Since the forum is live, there's hot data. Waves and waves of hot data that has to be injected directly into the very core of the new system. It's the only way-- by passing all it's layers of presentation and safety, and injecting right into it. Of course, even after Community Server is done using the new system as it's personal data dump, the ordeal won't end. Oh no, there will still be the need for large, massive injections. But the front-end will be all tied up servicing hordes of strangers needing to inject their own deliveries of data-- non-stop, any time of the day or night. So CS will have to have it's own special backdoor, so it can deliver new loads from behind, in the secret place that no one else gets to touch.
-
My biggest regret will be that we won't be poking fun at CS anymore. No more existential paradox jokes for me :P
No seriously I'm glad this is happening :)
-
Don't worry. Time for yet another Blakeyrat's Law:
When a volunteer project requiring a lot of effort is announced over a week before it's ready to roll out, it'll roll out at least a year late if at all.
Not very pithy I'm afraid, but generally accurate.
-
@blakeyrat said:
When a volunteer project requiring a lot of effort is announced over a week before it's ready to roll out, it'll roll out at least a year late if at all.
2 months and counting.The thing I find most strange is they appear to have already made up their mind about Discourse and are not really interested users opinion. OK. I get it. Alex owns the place, he can do what he wants. So, why not just wait until the new system is fully functional and running to their liking, and then announce: "In (some number of days) we're changing". I don't understand the point of announcing a change, especially a possibly unpopular change, when you don't actually have anything to change to.
-
@Muppet 3.11 pro gold said:
2 months and counting.
By my count we're coming up on five years. So I'm not really holding my breath.
-
I really hope this doesn't take a year! We had planned to have it rolled out in March :-/
Definitely interested in users' opinions (remember survey from a few weeks ago?)... seems a generally positive outlook for Discourse here though?
-
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
...seems a generally positive outlook for Discourse here though?
When was the last time there was a positive outlook for anything around here? I think people are more resigned, or view it as an empty threat more than a plan for action. We'll miss our favorite CS warts, and it will take time to love the Discourse warts as much.
-
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
Definitely interested in users' opinions (remember survey from a few weeks ago?)... seems a generally positive outlook for Discourse here though?
I can live with it, if the infinite scrolling crap can be turned off. Markdown pisses me off for various reasons, but Discourse has a decent toolbar that reduces exposure to it.
My real upsetness comes from the cocktease of telling us there's going to be a move, then months passing without any move or any news. But I've been around long enough to reliably predict that, as I posted above, so it's not that huge a deal.
EDIT: BTW, there's some psychology at play here. If you announce something with no date attached, people don't think, "oh that's coming in 6 months", people think, "oh wow that's coming real soon!!!" It takes a long history of being disappointed by date-less announcements to get to the state of healthy pessimism around early announcements.
TLDR: don't announce stuff until 1) you have a solid date, 2) you can actually hit that date with 95% certainty
-
@bstorer said:
@Muppet 3.11 pro gold said:
2 months and counting.
By my count we're coming up on five years. So I'm not really holding my breath.
HE LIVES
-
@morbiuswilters said:
@bstorer said:
@Muppet 3.11 pro gold said:
2 months and counting.
By my count we're coming up on five years. So I'm not really holding my breath.
HE LIVES
He wasn't holding his breath, then. Anyone who holds their breath for five years probably doesn't live.
-
@Ben L. said:
@morbiuswilters said:
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.@bstorer said:
@Muppet 3.11 pro gold said:
2 months and counting.
By my count we're coming up on five years. So I'm not really holding my breath.
HE LIVES
He wasn't holding his breath, then. Anyone who holds their breath for five years probably doesn't live.
-
@joe.edwards said:
@Ben L. said:
@morbiuswilters said:
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.@bstorer said:
@Muppet 3.11 pro gold said:
2 months and counting.
By my count we're coming up on five years. So I'm not really holding my breath.
HE LIVES
He wasn't holding his breath, then. Anyone who holds their breath for five years probably doesn't live.I think we can all agree that Community Server is The Thing That Should Not Be.
-
@blakeyrat said:
@dhromed said:
What happens in Discourse if you have a "60 page" thread and you visit it again and auto-go to the latest post? Does it load the entire thing so that you can scroll up in a regular and predictable way, while also slapping a gigabyte of memory use onto your browser?
Also that question, but I'm visiting on my 3G cellphone.
Doing the unthinkable and somewhat veering this back towards something resembling the original discussion...
I've got another forum I visit somewhat regularly that switched over to Discourse a while back. The infinite scroll thing actually only keeps the post you're looking at, plus a certain number in either direction, pulled into memory, pulling more as you scroll. Generally feels painless, and the while the "auto-scroll to the latest unread post" bit is occasionally annoying when I don't remember what a thread may have started as, it's somewhat useful. However...that forum also only has maybe 20-30 members, total. I don't honestly know how well it will turn out on something larger, like TDWTF.
-
A quick update... this is *almost* done. Right now, we're really struggling with the user import.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/importing-users-and-assigning-a-post-count/15674
Any help/suggestions are appreciated! I'd hate to not be able to do an import...
-
Discourse claims to have 'robust import and export tools' but apparently those 'robust tools' only work with other Discourse installations.
Nice.
-
@JohnRasch said:
any users whose combined comment count + forum post count >= 100 (there are 584 of these users total)
Hold up.
Are there any relatively new forum users currently actively posting but with less than 100 posts? I believe those should migrate as well, unless none of them speak up and it's fine by them to create new accounts.
It's new blood and all. Shouldn't punish that.
In fact it would exclude e4tmyl33t, three posts up.
-
@Lorne Kates said:
Long necks with throats that go on forever.
-
@dhromed said:
@JohnRasch said:
any users whose combined comment count + forum post count >= 100 (there are 584 of these users total)
Hold up.
Are there any relatively new forum users currently actively posting but with less than 100 posts? I believe those should migrate as well, unless none of them speak up and it's fine by them to create new accounts.
It's new blood and all. Shouldn't punish that.
In fact it would exclude e4tmyl33t, three posts up.
I don't think I qualify as 'relatively new', though I do lurk far more often than I post.
I'd prefer if my user account persisted, or at least my postcount, but I wouldn't be devastated if it didn't because of technical impossibilities or whatnot.
-
Well it's trivial to change the import threshold. Could make it 10.
But still doesn't solve the problem of doing the import :-/
I think we could do a direct insert to the database, but none of us are familiar with RoR (or whatever discourse is written in).
-
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
Well it's trivial to change the import threshold. Could make it 10.
Why not make it 0? Import everything. Just make sure to carry over the "banned for spamming" flag. Fuck those guys.
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
But still doesn't solve the problem of doing the import :-/
I think we could do a direct insert to the database, but none of us are familiar with RoR (or whatever discourse is written in).
I thought Discourse used a Postgres db. If you have direct access to the database, just write an import utility in .net. Select from cs_*... For Each ... insert into discourse_*. Translate fields as needed. Unless Discourse doesn't allow direct DB access. In which case, there's this saying some folks use around here, goes something like TRWTF or something...
-
I just read that thread:
@Alex Papadimoulis said:
https://meta.discourse.org/t/importing-users-and-assigning-a-post-count/15674
Other than the ridiculously complicated instructions on how to do a simple user import*, there's a post from "sam" who is "co-founder" of something (Discourse? Does a forum have founders?) saying they don't have a way of setting post count, and if you set it their scheduled task will overwrite it. That sucks.
*) Because making an admin page where you could just upload a CSV would be far too easy-- no spend 47 minutes in the commandline typing in complicated shit. I don't want to use a forum from any idiot who thinks that process is acceptable for importing users.
-
@blakeyrat said:
they don't have a way of setting post count
Who even cares about setting a post count? Isn't the correct answer import all 507 posts by this user. Their post count is now 507, because "SELECT count(1) FROM fucking_posts WHERE fucking_user='this_fucking_user';" returns 507?
Am I missing something about how forums work?
-
@Lorne Kates said:
@blakeyrat said:
they don't have a way of setting post count
Who even cares about setting a post count? Isn't the correct answer import all 507 posts by this user. Their post count is now 507, because "SELECT count(1) FROM fucking_posts WHERE fucking_user='this_fucking_user';" returns 507?
Am I missing something about how forums work?
yea
-
@Lorne Kates said:
Who even cares about setting a post count? Isn't the correct answer import all 507 posts by this user. Their post count is now 507, because "SELECT count(1) FROM fucking_posts WHERE fucking_user='this_fucking_user';" returns 507?
Am I missing something about how forums work?
Based on the above conversation in this thread, that seems to be not-possible. But maybe I'm making an assumption.
In principle, I agree with you: ideally 100% of the database is imported into Discourse, then it just counts the posts as normal.
-
@blakeyrat said:
@Lorne Kates said:
Who even cares about setting a post count? Isn't the correct answer import all 507 posts by this user. Their post count is now 507, because "SELECT count(1) FROM fucking_posts WHERE fucking_user='this_fucking_user';" returns 507?
Am I missing something about how forums work?
Based on the above conversation in this thread, that seems to be not-possible. But maybe I'm making an assumption.
As they say, all things are possible...
Unfortunately our lack of skill in Linux/postgres/etc this makes it non-trivial, and we don't have the time to do this, then test it, etc... on top of doing a site redesign.
if anyone wants to take a stab at it, the discourse stuff is open source and I can get an export of the tdwtf cs sql database.
-
@dhromed said:
It's new blood and all. Shouldn't punish that.
I favour special privileges--like, say, a harem--for users with post count over, say, 12,000.
-
@Lorne Kates said:
Why not make it 0? Import everything. Just make sure to carry over the "banned for spamming" flag. Fuck those guys.
Hilariously, CS is so messed up that spam users have all of their posts deleted, their post count isn't updated.
