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Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

Last post 11-25-2012 7:16 AM by dhromed. 150 replies.
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  • 11-08-2012 3:24 PM

    • ekolis
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-09-2008
    • Cincinnati, OH, USA
    • Posts 600

    Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Seriously guys, check out this site...

    http://www.screwattack.com/

     It's a decent gaming community populated by mostly nice folks, but the website itself is atrocious!

    * Forum is frequently completely offline with no indication whatsoever of why or when it will be fixed.

    * Runs "ghetto JavaScript" (as I like to call it) which makes navigating between pages in the lists of polls, blogs, etc. impossible - you have to click one at a time (you used to be able to go to a specific page, but for some reason they removed that feature)

    * Speaking of polls, you can only vote in one poll... EVER. Then you have to do some voodoo magic to your browser or else you get a "Validation Error" which suggests you notify an admin. The admins know about this. They have known for over a year. They have not fixed it. You can work around the issue by going to the list of past polls, but since they removed the ability to go to an arbitrary page, you have to click through pages one at a time. And the site is slow. And there are like 90 pages of polls. And they are sorted going FORWARD chronologically!

    * Depending on what browser you use, you may sometimes see "pixie dust" - small floating divs resembling blank tooltips that appear and disappear for no reason whatsoever.

    * Did I mention the website is slow?

    * Try a "view source" in your browser... seriously? The <html> tag has over half a dozen attributes that don't even belong there! The <body> tag has at least a dozen CSS classes, including "cheese"! There are about 10 or so identical <script> tags hanging there! Practically everything has a jQuerySomeRandomNumberHash attribute! There are several completely empty divs, including one called "fancybox-tmp"!

    I'm Spark Mandrill, and I'll... hey... can I... what, it BOUNCES?... 'kay, I'm splodin' now.
  • 11-08-2012 6:04 PM In reply to

    • havokk
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-25-2008
    • Christchurch, New Zealand
    • Posts 204

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Wow. It makes Community Server look like a polished, professional product.
  • 11-08-2012 8:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    screwattack.com:
    You are not authorized to access this page.
    An advanced movement system is required to view this page. Please wander in circles for ten hours.
  • 11-08-2012 8:24 PM In reply to

    • ekolis
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-09-2008
    • Cincinnati, OH, USA
    • Posts 600

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    arotenbe:
    screwattack.com:
    You are not authorized to access this page.
    An advanced movement system is required to view this page. Please wander in circles for ten hours.
     

     

    Heh, yeah, and sometimes it does that...

     Good thing you have an advanced movement system, being a spider and all! Though I'm not sure which spider you're supposed to be - Gohma from the Zelda games? An Antaran from Master of Orion ][?

    I'm Spark Mandrill, and I'll... hey... can I... what, it BOUNCES?... 'kay, I'm splodin' now.
  • 11-08-2012 8:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Oh come on, with those clues I thought this would be easy.
  • 11-08-2012 8:31 PM In reply to

    • ekolis
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-09-2008
    • Cincinnati, OH, USA
    • Posts 600

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

     AAARGH! I THOUGHT it might be something from Metroid, but I couldn't remember any spider bosses from the Metroid games... :(

    I'm Spark Mandrill, and I'll... hey... can I... what, it BOUNCES?... 'kay, I'm splodin' now.
  • 11-08-2012 8:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    And to further slaughter the joke: the "advanced movement system" quote was supposed to be a reference to what the scan for wall jump surfaces says before you get the Screw Attack in Prime 2. (Or was it 3? Maybe it was the Spider Ball. I don't know why I even remember that line.)

  • 11-08-2012 9:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Who the fuck plays shitty Nintendo games? The last time I played Metroid, it was Metroid II on my green-and-white Gameboy.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 12:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    The random hashes from jQuery is an IE thing. Normal browsers work properly and don't need those. IE is the obvious exception to "good browsers".
  • 11-09-2012 12:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Correction: it's an IE6,7 thing. IE9 is as good a browser as any other.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 1:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    IE9 isn't really a good browser. It might be better, but its not good. It doesn't support a large amount of new JavaScript stuff. The CSS is a bit better, but its missing properties too.
    Spend any time writing real JavaScript (more complex than image rollovers, and jQuery isn't real JavaScript either) and you'd realize that IE is not a good browser, it's just a poor facsimile of a good browser.
  • 11-09-2012 3:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    These days, you play shitty games on your Vita. Now that's an improvement, right?

    'Automating' comes from the roots 'auto-' meaning 'self-', and 'mating', meaning 'screwing'. - Etymologyman
  • 11-09-2012 3:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    gu3st:
    It doesn't support a large amount of new JavaScript stuff

    Hold the presses: a 2-year old browser doesn't support support new Javascript stuff. Un-possible!

    How are Firefox 4 and Chrome 10 working out for you?

    It's... Monkey Piston's Frying Circle!
  • 11-09-2012 4:16 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Well, IE10 is out so now we can finally stop worrying about IE9. And with "now" I mean "when XP and Vista are safe to ignore", which won't be anytime before Vista's extended support term ends in 2017.

    The worst thing about IE is not its crummy implementation of existing standards (although I grant them that their nonstandard stuff sometimes happens to be brilliant); the worst thing is Microsoft's refusal to backport it to older Windows versions they still actively support. Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.

    Thank you, Microsoft.
  • 11-09-2012 5:36 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    j6cubic:
    Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.
    Well, as long as XP is still around, you're going to have to put up with IE8 or worse.
    this post is bossy
  • 11-09-2012 5:37 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    Correction: it's an IE6,7 thing. IE9 is as good a browser as any other.
    IE9 is the only browser I know which will render a div which has an explicit width set in CSS with a size which is a fraction of a pixel off that width, causing a visible line between its contents (an image which exactly fits the width) and its border.
    You'll probably find that the forum experience is improved by going to the "Site Options" tab of "Edit Profile" and turning off "Display User Signatures".
  • 11-09-2012 6:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    boomzilla:
    j6cubic:
    Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.
    Well, as long as XP is still around, you're going to have to put up with IE8 or worse.
    Yes, and CSS3PIE is the bane of my existence. Well, one of them. Without IE8 we could at least do the gradients our customers demand natively* and stop worrying about having to give random elements position: relative because PIE is semi-incompatible with position: static. Bonus points if this happens in a part of the document where we really don't want a new stacking context.

    * Read: With data-URL'd SVG background images, which still beats having to use CSS3PIE.
  • 11-09-2012 6:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    gu3st:
    It might be better, but its not good. It doesn't support a large amount of new JavaScript stuff. The CSS is a bit better, but its missing properties too.
    You did consider that most "new" CSS and Javascript things are Webkit or Gecko proprietary features, right?

    Information technology not available until further notice. The political trolls won. Wake me up when the discussion is more interesting then YouTube comments.

  • 11-09-2012 8:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    pjt33:
    IE9 is the only browser I know which will render a div which has an explicit width set in CSS with a size which is a fraction of a pixel off that width, causing a visible line between its contents (an image which exactly fits the width) and its border.
     

    I've never seen this. I would like to see some screenshots.

    It's possible that the browser was slightly zoomed, which can happen accidentally. This means that IE9's zoom is broken, just as it was in 7 and 8.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

    Filed under:
  • 11-09-2012 8:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    MiffTheFox:
    You did consider that most "new" CSS and Javascript things are Webkit or Gecko proprietary features, right?
     

    ?


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

    Filed under:
  • 11-09-2012 8:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    Correction: it's an IE6,7 thing. IE9 is as good a browser as any other.
    For a moment there I almost thought you were being serious, then I realised you were trolling everyone. Nice joke! Haha!

  • 11-09-2012 9:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ekolis:
    There are several completely empty divs, including one called "fancybox-tmp"!
     

    The rest of the site is fairly WTF, though this particular one is normal. Fancybox is a lightbox popup. When you include the js, it creates an empty div. When you activate a link that's been fancybox'd, it uses that div to hold the popup contents (content local to the page, or an iframe to another page).  It's actually quite a nifty utility.


    HardwareGeek:

    <blink> and you're dead!



    "Where is grumpy cat?"
    - Mozilla's MOST ADVANCED USER!
  • 11-09-2012 9:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Yeah, nothing wrong with empty divs.
  • 11-09-2012 10:16 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    steenbergh:

    These days, you play shitty games on your Vita. Now that's an improvement, right?

    Nope. I only bought that shitpile because I wanted to play video games on the go and there's no such thing as a "Xbox Portable".

    But the fact that the Vita sucks is entirely independent of the fact that all Nintendo games have sucked for the last 10 years.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 10:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    j6cubic:
    Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.
    Oh no! You might have to actually do... testing! Testing in multiple environments! Waaaaaah waaaaaah! Fuck web developers are babies.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 10:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Sutherlands:
    Yeah, nothing wrong with empty divs.
    Although it would be cleaner for them to be added/removed as necessary by Javascript.

  • 11-09-2012 10:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    j6cubic:
    Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.
    Oh no! You might have to actually do... testing! Testing in multiple environments! Waaaaaah waaaaaah! Fuck web developers are babies.
    Without any versions of IE, testing would still be required, don't be so fucking stupid, did you even read what he wrote, or are you just making up pretend little arguments in your head and basing your replies on that instead?

  • 11-09-2012 10:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:
    blakeyrat:
    Oh no! You might have to actually do... testing! Testing in multiple environments! Waaaaaah waaaaaah! Fuck web developers are babies.
    Without any versions of IE, testing would still be required, don't be so fucking stupid, did you even read what he wrote, or are you just making up pretend little arguments in your head listening to your shoulder aliens and basing your replies on that instead?
    SATFY
    this post is bossy
  • 11-09-2012 12:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:
    Sutherlands:
    Yeah, nothing wrong with empty divs.
    Although it would be cleaner for them to be added/removed as necessary by Javascript.
     

    Erm.. the point of the empty divs was to allow content to be added/removed as necessary by Javascript.

    The div's ID It merely identifies where it will be added.

  • 11-09-2012 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    j6cubic:
    Even if IE10 was the best browser in the world and came with a free blowjob, IE9 would still be the relevant IE version for web developers until XP and Vista drop out of the internet.
    Oh no! You might have to actually do... testing! Testing in multiple environments! Waaaaaah waaaaaah! Fuck web developers are babies.

    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).

    Though, in practice, we end up loading our site with twelve different "polyfills" (each with their own bugs and gotchas) that emulate the functionality in IE that all the other browsers have right-out-of-the-box. Result? It takes 2-3 times as long to make things work in IE as it does everywhere else.

    Signatures are stupid.
  • 11-09-2012 12:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    joe.edwards:
    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).
    But that's not Microsoft's fault, that the W3C.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 12:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Cassidy:

    Erm.. the point of the empty divs was to allow content to be added/removed as necessary by Javascript.

    The div's ID It merely identifies where it will be added.

    Erm, ever heard of manipulating the dom with Javascript? It's simple to just append that div programatically (even simpler with jQuery and the like). There's no reason to stuff the HTML with empty tags for the sake of presentation when that tag is only useful when used in conjunction with Javascript. It's just a matter of style, some have it, others don't...

     

  • 11-09-2012 1:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    joe.edwards:
    we end up loading our site with twelve different "polyfills"
     

    Then don't do that. I can't even begin to fathom what a polyfill is or why you aceept that there are twelve of them on your page.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 11-09-2012 1:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    A polyfill, as I said above, is a script you can drop-in that makes IE work like everybody else. Except they're quirky. They're trying to fake missing functionality. So we have selectivizr, which parses our CSS file to apply styles to CSS selectors IE can't understand. We use PIE, which makes IE able to understand styles like background-size; it definitely doesn't just work, though, it works in the form of an htc (IE-proprietary "behavior") and doesn't support eg relative paths in image URLs [because it's running as a script, the "current directory" is that of the page, not the CSS file], and requires elements to be position:relative. We use modernizr primarily for IE compatibility as well, because without it IE would not apply any CSS styles to any HTML5 elements because it ignores tags it hasn't heard of. Then there's another polyfill that emulates localStorage, because of IE (all the other browsers do that already). I could go on.

    Signatures are stupid.
  • 11-09-2012 2:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:

    Cassidy:

    Erm.. the point of the empty divs was to allow content to be added/removed as necessary by Javascript.

    The div's ID It merely identifies where it will be added.

    Erm, ever heard of manipulating the dom with Javascript? It's simple to just append that div programatically (even simpler with jQuery and the like). There's no reason to stuff the HTML with empty tags for the sake of presentation when that tag is only useful when used in conjunction with Javascript. It's just a matter of style, some have it, others don't...
    Because

    $('#imageContent').add(image)

    is much more complex than

    var contentDiv = $('#description')'.last().parent().create("div");

    contentDiv.add(image);

    ?

    Geez I'd hate to see your code.

  • 11-09-2012 3:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    joe.edwards:
    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).
    But that's not Microsoft's fault, that the W3C.
    If every other browser can implement new stuff, but Microsoft cannot.. Who has the problem? WebKit, Opera and Mozilla can manage, why can't Microsoft who certainly has more resources than Opera at the very least.
  • 11-09-2012 3:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    gu3st:
    blakeyrat:
    joe.edwards:
    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).
    But that's not Microsoft's fault, that the W3C.
    If every other browser can implement new stuff, but Microsoft cannot.. Who has the problem? WebKit, Opera and Mozilla can manage, why can't Microsoft who certainly has more resources than Opera at the very least.

    You're not familiar with how the W3C operates, are you?

    1. A need for a lacking web feature is identified by Microsoft.
    2. They implement it in Internet Explorer
    3. People start using it in corporate environments
    4. W3C picks up on it, and writes it into the spec in a way that is similar to, but not compatible with, Microsoft's implementation.
    5. Everyone else adds the W3C's version
    6. People complain that IE doesn't support standards
  • 11-09-2012 3:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    That's not the point.

    The point is that Microsoft has, in the past, implemented W3C recommendations before they were finalized. After shipping the product, the W3C changed the recommendation making IE retroactively non-compliant. The fall-out is that IE had a "wrong" CSS box model for years, because they were stuck in a shitty position of not being able to implement the final W3C recommendation without breaking backwards-compatibility with previous versions of their own browser. In short, the W3C fucked them.

    Given that, do you blame them for not implementing recommendations that haven't been finalized? I don't. I think they're making a wise decision. If you were fucked by the W3C, you might make the same decision.

    You're being an idiot if you think Microsoft didn't implement them because they "cannot". That's fucking ridiculous. The clowns running Mozilla can do it, you seriously think MS can't?

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-09-2012 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    This is exactly what vendor prefixes were intended to solve.

    Signatures are stupid.
  • 11-09-2012 9:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    pkmnfrk:
    gu3st:
    blakeyrat:
    joe.edwards:
    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).
    But that's not Microsoft's fault, that the W3C.
    If every other browser can implement new stuff, but Microsoft cannot.. Who has the problem? WebKit, Opera and Mozilla can manage, why can't Microsoft who certainly has more resources than Opera at the very least.

    You're not familiar with how the W3C operates, are you?

    1. A need for a lacking web feature is identified by Microsoft.
    2. They implement it in Internet Explorer
    3. People start using it in corporate environments
    4. W3C picks up on it, and writes it into the spec in a way that is similar to, but not compatible with, Microsoft's implementation.
    5. Everyone else adds the W3C's version
    6. People complain that IE doesn't support standards
    joe.edwards:

    This is exactly what vendor prefixes were intended to solve.

    Sadly, this shifts the WTF from client-side code to server-side code. (For this example, you can swap every instance of Chrome/Google and Firefox/Mozilla btw.)

    1. A need for a lacking web feature is identified by Google, or maybe they just think of something they would kinda like.
    2. They implement it in Chrome, slapping -wekbit- on the front.
    3. Mozilla hears about the feature and implements it in Firefox, with -moz- on the front, although sometimes in a different and incompatible fashion.
    4. People start using it in corporate environments, with both the -moz- and the -webkit- version in the background. (And if you're lucky, it degrades in other browsers!)
    5. Opera hears about it and implements it with -o- slapped on the front. Nobody uses it.
    6. W3C picks up on it, and writes it into the spec in a way that is often similar to, but not compatible with, either Google or Mozilla's implementation.
    7. Everybody starts using the W3C's version... in addition to the -moz- and -webkit- versions.
    8. People complain that CSS3 needs three different declarations of a gradient.
    9. We need things like LESS to patch together templates.

    Besides, until recently, the W3C actually frowned on using unprefixed CSS3 properties, since the spec was incomplete. Mozilla announced that they were going to start honoring -webkit-css3. The W3C flipped their shit and told people to drop the prefixes.


    Information technology not available until further notice. The political trolls won. Wake me up when the discussion is more interesting then YouTube comments.

  • 11-10-2012 1:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:
    Erm, ever heard of manipulating the dom with Javascript?
     

    Yup. When I teach the topic, I discuss different approaches:

    1. navigate the dom tree by hopping to specific nodes,
    2. search for specific node(s) by tag name (getElementByTagNames),
    3. identify a node uniquely (getElementById).

    With each technique, I discuss appropriate usage, benefits and drawbacks: people understand that navigating by route has its advantages (adding another list item in HTML means it automatically becomes a drop-down menu item) but could also mean changes in the HTML requires changes in Javascript node addressing.

    Navigating by target node means the node is accessible by this ID, no matter where in the HTML it's located, decoupling HTML changes from the javascript. A HTML developer can scatter IDs throughout the markup to identify actionable regions, leaving the JS part to handle events and responses.

    (I usually draw an analogy with: 1&2 are about firing up a search engine then clicking a numbered link on the results, 3 is about having a bookmark which doesn't tie into the search engine results)

    ASheridan:
    It's just a matter of style, some have it, others don't...

    Classy!

  • 11-11-2012 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    gu3st:
    blakeyrat:
    joe.edwards:
    It's not about the need to test (which exists anyway). It's about the features you want to use not being available, therefore you cannot use them (at least for anything important). We won't be able to use any new features in IE10 until IE9 finally dies a fiery death (and even then, border-image still won't be supported).
    But that's not Microsoft's fault, that the W3C.
    If every other browser can implement new stuff, but Microsoft cannot.. Who has the problem? WebKit, Opera and Mozilla can manage, why can't Microsoft who certainly has more resources than Opera at the very least.
    But Microsoft CAN implement the new stuff. If you want to compare browsers, you can only fairly compare a recent Firefox or Chrome to the recent IE10. You can only compare the 2 year old IE9 to the 2 year old Firefox 4 or the 2 year old Chrome 10, unless you're like every other open source hypocrite out there.

    Yes, you will have to support IE9 for years to come because corporate desktops will not easily upgrade. But the same goes for the Firefox 11 on my locked down corporate Citrix desktop. I hope you are still testing against that version otherwise your websites will look like shit to thousands of employees here :p It's the corporate environment that forces Microsoft to have a slow but stable release cycle. But as soon as an open source applications gets installed in that same rigid environment it loses all the benefits like the fast release cycles, quick adaptation to new standards, ... and the flexibility goes out of the window

     

    It's... Monkey Piston's Frying Circle!
  • 11-11-2012 11:51 PM In reply to

    • Ben L.
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-21-2010
    • HELP I'M TRAPPED IN A COMMUNITY SERVER FACTORY
    • Posts 3,454

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Cassidy:
    1. navigate the dom tree by hopping to specific nodes,
    2. search for specific node(s) by tag name (getElementByTagNames),
    3. identify a node uniquely (getElementById).
    4. document.querySelectorAll("#articles>div p + h1")
    mi'e .ben.ly. .i na selju'o mi la lojban
  • 11-12-2012 1:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Ben L.:
    4. document.querySelectorAll("#articles>div p + h1")
     

    .. which is a combination of the others (well, 2 and/or 3, at least).. is it not?

    (I really thought the DOM cried out for getElementsByClassName until discovering this)

  • 11-12-2012 4:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    Sutherlands:
    Geez I'd hate to see your code.

     Which code is that? The code where I'm not filling my HTML with empty div tags for each Javascript plugin I'm using? I hardly see a huge problem with a single extra line of Javascript just for one div.

  • 11-12-2012 4:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    blakeyrat:
    That's not the point.

    The point is that Microsoft has, in the past, implemented W3C recommendations before they were finalized. After shipping the product, the W3C changed the recommendation making IE retroactively non-compliant. The fall-out is that IE had a "wrong" CSS box model for years, because they were stuck in a shitty position of not being able to implement the final W3C recommendation without breaking backwards-compatibility with previous versions of their own browser. In short, the W3C fucked them.

    Given that, do you blame them for not implementing recommendations that haven't been finalized? I don't. I think they're making a wise decision. If you were fucked by the W3C, you might make the same decision.

    You're being an idiot if you think Microsoft didn't implement them because they "cannot". That's fucking ridiculous. The clowns running Mozilla can do it, you seriously think MS can't?

    Nearly there, but not quite. Microsoft doesn't add features to a browser via updates like other browsers do. I'm not saying they need to take this to the extreme that Firefox and Chrome have (which is a bit of a WTF in itself) but it would be nice if once in a while they fixed some of the bugs they introduce in their browsers by way of an update or two. Like the inability to use some MS-specific CSS filters (for things like drop shadows, rotation, etc) on IE7/8 with PNGs containing alpha transparency. Or the way that even IE9 still doesn't implement CSS display properties that have been available in other browsers for years. There's bunches of websites out there detailing some of the strange bugs found in different versions of IE. I'm sure if they wanted to they could introduce updates to fix these problems, but they don't seem to care.

     

  • 11-12-2012 5:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:

    blakeyrat:
    That's not the point.

    <snip>

    You're being an idiot if you think Microsoft didn't implement them because they "cannot". That's fucking ridiculous. The clowns running Mozilla can do it, you seriously think MS can't?

    Nearly there, but not quite. Microsoft doesn't add features to a browser via updates like other browsers do. I'm not saying they need to take this to the extreme that Firefox and Chrome have (which is a bit of a WTF in itself) but it would be nice if once in a while they fixed some of the bugs they introduce in their browsers by way of an update or two.
    It would be nice but it wouldn't make any difference. None of our biggest client I have worked for allows 'Windows Update' to run. And if it runs, it can only connect to the corporate update server (WSUS) where updates are only allowed if some project gives money out of their own budget to get the update added to the list of accepted updates.

    Projects are paid for by the business and not a single project wants to dedicate budget to making the lives of developers easy, especially not if other projects will get the same benefits afterwards without paying for them. At my current client, some project needed Firefox 11 so it made it to the list of accepted software. I have it installed but I cannot upgrade to Firefox 16 simply because the "updater.exe" is NOT allowed. In good Micro$oft-bashing tradition I blame the idiots at Mozilla for this.

    It's... Monkey Piston's Frying Circle!
  • 11-12-2012 5:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    bjolling:

    ASheridan:

    blakeyrat:
    That's not the point.

    <snip>

    You're being an idiot if you think Microsoft didn't implement them because they "cannot". That's fucking ridiculous. The clowns running Mozilla can do it, you seriously think MS can't?

    Nearly there, but not quite. Microsoft doesn't add features to a browser via updates like other browsers do. I'm not saying they need to take this to the extreme that Firefox and Chrome have (which is a bit of a WTF in itself) but it would be nice if once in a while they fixed some of the bugs they introduce in their browsers by way of an update or two.
    It would be nice but it wouldn't make any difference. None of our biggest client I have worked for allows 'Windows Update' to run. And if it runs, it can only connect to the corporate update server (WSUS) where updates are only allowed if some project gives money out of their own budget to get the update added to the list of accepted updates.

    Projects are paid for by the business and not a single project wants to dedicate budget to making the lives of developers easy, especially not if other projects will get the same benefits afterwards without paying for them. At my current client, some project needed Firefox 11 so it made it to the list of accepted software. I have it installed but I cannot upgrade to Firefox 16 simply because the "updater.exe" is NOT allowed. In good Micro$oft-bashing tradition I blame the idiots at Mozilla for this.

    Not allowing the updates in to a coporate environment is a different problem. I have to deal with this one all the time as a web developer, where a lot of the clients are locked in to using IE7 & 8. But this doesn't mean that Microsoft can't make the updates available. Then there is at least a choice. It's not like they haven't done it before, when they created the update for IE5 that included lots of bug fixes and new features. Just since then, there seems to be only security updates, and that's it.

     

  • 11-12-2012 7:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    ASheridan:

    bjolling:

    ASheridan:

    blakeyrat:
    That's not the point.

    <snip>

    You're being an idiot if you think Microsoft didn't implement them because they "cannot". That's fucking ridiculous. The clowns running Mozilla can do it, you seriously think MS can't?

    Nearly there, but not quite. Microsoft doesn't add features to a browser via updates like other browsers do. I'm not saying they need to take this to the extreme that Firefox and Chrome have (which is a bit of a WTF in itself) but it would be nice if once in a while they fixed some of the bugs they introduce in their browsers by way of an update or two.
    It would be nice but it wouldn't make any difference. None of our biggest client I have worked for allows 'Windows Update' to run. And if it runs, it can only connect to the corporate update server (WSUS) where updates are only allowed if some project gives money out of their own budget to get the update added to the list of accepted updates.

    Projects are paid for by the business and not a single project wants to dedicate budget to making the lives of developers easy, especially not if other projects will get the same benefits afterwards without paying for them. At my current client, some project needed Firefox 11 so it made it to the list of accepted software. I have it installed but I cannot upgrade to Firefox 16 simply because the "updater.exe" is NOT allowed. In good Micro$oft-bashing tradition I blame the idiots at Mozilla for this.

    Not allowing the updates in to a corporate environment is a different problem.
    But the root problem stays the same. As a web developer you can safely ignore older version of Firefox and Chrome because they are not often used in locked-down corporate environments so they are usually up-to-date installations for regular home users or small businesses. Not so with Internet Explorer where it's very important to the business people that the browser is stable and does not change. So even if Microsoft would send out regular updates, none of the businesses I have ever consulted for would even consider applying them, unless the "risk of not changing" becomes bigger than the "risk of changing". So you still have to support the first version of IE9 until it goes to "end of extended support" for Windows 7 (I think)

     

    It's... Monkey Piston's Frying Circle!
  • 11-12-2012 8:37 AM In reply to

    Re: Got equipped with SCREW ATTACK!

    bjolling:
    So you still have to support the first version of IE9 until it goes to "end of extended support" for Windows 7 (I think)
    The reality is that we have to support it for a lot longer than that. We are still supporting clients with only IE7 installed because they cannot update their browsers or install an alternative one, and IE7 is (I think) way out of Microsofts support period now.

    And somehow I doubt that Microsoft not making updates for its browser versions has anything to do with its concern for businesses that are afraid to update.

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