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Overheard at work

Last post 03-03-2012 3:49 AM by Cassidy. 72 replies.
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  • 02-28-2012 2:01 PM

    Overheard at work

    Boss: We need you to come in all day this Saturday, but we're not going to pay you, and you can't have time off in lieu.
    Not-a-doormat: Er, OK, but there's a bit of a problem with public transport on the weekend, so I won't be here for 9 in the morning, I'll be a bit late.
    Boss: OK, what time will you be here?
    Not-a-doormat: Monday.

    The WTF here is that I have a feeling that 'boss' will be in trouble if he tries to take that one further, because he's trying to cover up his own mismanagement by abusing his staff and the higher management at that company's actually pretty good. The other WTF is that someone else in the same building is as much of an annoying smartarse as I am.

  • 02-28-2012 2:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Bwahaha, I love it!

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-28-2012 2:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Please keep us updated on this one!
  • 02-28-2012 2:23 PM In reply to

    • Anketam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-12-2011
    • Nar Shaddaa
    • Posts 484

    Re: Overheard at work

    5 star rating

    Project Manager: I don't know. I'm not allowed to talk directly to the customer. Apparently my grip on reality is too tight.
    - Weng
  • 02-28-2012 2:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    OzPeter:
    Please keep us updated on this one!
    Hopefully there won't be any update. If there is any further action on this, 'boss' will be the one in trouble. I've had my eye on him anyway, because he's seemed generally useless.

    This client's a very nice medium-sized company that was a nice very small company for many years until quite recently, so the top bosses are likely to look rather askance at a manager making that request in the first place - until a couple of years ago, they'd lock the office and set the alarm on Friday evening, and it would stay that way until Monday morning without exception, as a matter of company policy. Even now, if a plan involves weekend work, there'd better be a damn good reason for it. Nice people - and of course, because they treat their employees like people, they've held onto the competent, nice ones, so working there is generally a real pleasure.

    On top of that, if 'boss' can't get his job done with the allocated resources, he needs to explain why and ask for more, not try and cover it up by exploiting his team members. If there's a good reason for the over-run, he'll almost certainly get the extra resources, so it's likely that the reason he's not asking is because he's screwed-up and is trying to hide it. It's unusual to find team members treating their boss with undeserved contempt.

  • 02-28-2012 2:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

     

    fterfi secure:
    It's unusual to find team members treating their boss with undeserved contempt.

    Very true.

    Be brief, no matter how long it takes.
  • 02-28-2012 2:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Wonderful response. +1 to the non-dormat from me.

    As a matter of interest what would happen if the non-doormat agreed then just never appeared on saturday morning?

  • 02-28-2012 2:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    At my last place, I was asked by the CIO to setup the wireless home network and VPN access for one of the directors, in their home, after hours, and it was implied that it would be part of my duties, and there wouldn't be any overtime, and I may have to do more than one. I vehemently oppose doing such things ("Oh hey, while I have you here, can you take at look at my own computer|set up my printer so my son can print to it|set up my console so I can play against other people|take care of anything that has wires, etc"), so I told him that I would be next free evening would be in approximately 18 months. However I could expedite the process to that night for my normal in-home consulting fee of $200/hour, minimum 3 hours, plus travel cost of about a $1 per km.

    I was not asked to do in-home VPN installs anymore after that.

  • 02-28-2012 3:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Monday... love it as well.

  • 02-28-2012 3:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    OzPeter:
    Please keep us updated on this one!
    Hopefully there won't be any update. If there is any further action on this, 'boss' will be the one in trouble.
    Well thats what I'm looking for. If this boss is between a rock and a hard place then something has to give. He's apparently tried and failed to cover things up with slave labor, so either he gets blasted by his boss for being in such a state, or he pushes for his slave labor harder and it escalates into something messier. Either way its a potential schadenfreude situation.
  • 02-28-2012 4:01 PM In reply to

    • Renan
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-10-2007
    • Fortaleza, Brazil
    • Posts 731

    Re: Overheard at work

    Anketam:

    5 star rating

    +1
    snoofle

    That hideousness is what keeps you and I [sic] employed!
  • 02-28-2012 4:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Cassidy:
    As a matter of interest what would happen if the non-doormat agreed then just never appeared on saturday morning?
    Well, since I overheard the conversation there's a high chance there'd have been some downtime scheduled for Saturday morning. Otherwise? Hard to say - 'boss' probably couldn't have done anything, for the same reason, but if he had complained to upper management then Not-a-Doormat would likely have been lightly ticked off for dealing with an unreasonable request in the wrong way.
    Nexzus:
    At my last place, I was asked by the CIO to setup the wireless home network and VPN access for one of the directors, in their home, after hours, and it was implied that it would be part of my duties, and there wouldn't be any overtime, and I may have to do more than one.
    I've been asked to get people to do that kind of thing. I always answered that it needs to be done in normal support hours in case there are any unexpected issues.
    OzPeter:
    If this boss is between a rock and a hard place then something has to give.
    I'm just assuming the reason is as I said - but even if not, he hasn't been there that long, and since he's a complete arse none of his projects have gone well. I doubt he'll be there too much longer. I've already mentioned to the top bosses that he hasn't impressed me, and since my role with that client is largely just to tell them whether they're getting value-for-money from technical investment, and he's nominally technical, that's probably going to do the trick. If he's still there in six months or so, I'll start making more problems end up being his fault, although it probably won't be necessary.
  • 02-28-2012 4:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Renan:
    Anketam:

    5 star rating

    +1
     

     

    ... 6 ?

     


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-28-2012 4:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Last Sunday, I put one or two informal hours into finalizing a project because I preferred it in a clean state of "done" before Monday so I could get on working on other things.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-28-2012 4:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:

    Last Sunday, I put one or two informal hours into finalizing a project because I preferred it in a clean state of "done" before Monday so I could get on working on other things.

    If I was your boss, I'd appreciate the dedication, but prefer you not to do it again. If you don't have time to do your job, I want to know about it. I also want to know that you're getting adequate rest and relaxation so you can do a good job, and I want to make sure you have a good work-life balance so you're not looking for alternative employment.

    In my book, if you needed a few hours to finish things up on Monday morning to start something new with a clean desk, then schedule the new project to start on Monday afternoon. I assume what you're really saying here is that it's more efficient to put the extra couple of hours in, but they're not allowed for in your schedule - well, I want to make those efficiency savings for everyone, and I can't if you didn't let me know there was a problem.

  • 02-28-2012 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    Nexzus:
    At my last place, I was asked by the CIO to setup the wireless home network and VPN access for one of the directors, in their home, after hours, and it was implied that it would be part of my duties, and there wouldn't be any overtime, and I may have to do more than one.
    I've been asked to get people to do that kind of thing. I always answered that it needs to be done in normal support hours in case there are any unexpected issues.
     

    Another approach would be to show up drunk, and with the supplies necessary to ensure that you're more so as time goes on, take until two or three in the morning to do the job, then ask if they'll let you sleep it off in their spare room.  After all, it'd be irresponsible to make you drive home in that condition, and they can't very well punish you for being drunk on what is technically and officially "your own time".

  • 02-28-2012 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    da Doctah:
    ...and they can't very well punish you for being drunk on what is technically and officially "your own time".
    Um, if an employee shows up drunk to my house to do a job they agreed to do, then, yeah, they can be punished. I'm not saying it justifies the request that was made in the first place, but being irresponsibly drunk around your boss is just idiotic. At best, it's going to raise eyebrows. At worst, you'll find yourself looking for a new job.

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-28-2012 5:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    If you don't have time to do your job, I want to know about it.
     

    This already permeates the office, and is being worked at by trying to reel in new programmers. In the mean time,  we shouldn't treat management as evil, incompetent fools and in return programmers don't get treated as stubborn and uncaring.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-28-2012 5:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:

    fterfi secure:
    If you don't have time to do your job, I want to know about it.
     

    This already permeates the office, and is being worked at by trying to reel in new programmers. In the mean time,  we shouldn't treat management as evil, incompetent fools and in return programmers don't get treated as stubborn and uncaring.

    Yes, sorry, you're quite right. It's not always possible to do something about it immediately - but I feel very strongly that forty hours a week is an absolute maximum if you want to get the best out of people, and if they go over that repeatedly on an ongoing basis, they're going to need a long holiday at some point fairly soon or they just won't be able to produce their best work.

    If everyone works together to overcome problems, and no-one gets taken advantage of, it's best all round in the long-term. Really it's a complete WTF that we're even talking about this, but bizarrely it's rare to find places where that actually happens.

  • 02-28-2012 6:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    But I get the impression dhromed put in the extra time because he wanted to, rather than he felt he had to, or was pressured into doing it. He'll have to confirm that.

    (I'm guessing also it's probably not a practise that dhromed would willingly frequently repeat without some form of recognition)

  • 02-28-2012 11:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    Boss: OK, what time will you be here?
    Not-a-doormat: Monday.
    *takes notes*

    Actually, I don't really have this problem - while we do periodically have weekend work requirements for rollouts and DR testing and such, we do get time off in lieu (though that doesn't include transport time) and my boss generally will let me VPN in instead from home if the VPN is going to be available. It takes me over an hour to get in, so I don't like coming in if all I'm doing is kicking off a batch job and then watching it to make sure it doesn't fail. Fortunately my boss understands this and agrees.

    But I'll note this response anyway. Just in case.

    Incidentally, last time I had to come in for weekend work (DR testing, can't VPN in for that because the network is reconfigured and cut off from the outside), the original schedule called for me to be there around 5-7 pm. We got updates during the day and there were some delays, so I wound up coming in at 6:30... only to wait around for a couple of hours because the application on the server I'm pulling data from wasn't coming up properly. (I don't even need the app, just the database, but they couldn't guarantee that they'd keep the database up while they fixed the problem with the app, so I had to wait.) In the end I kicked off my job at about 8:45, it ran until nearly 11, and I left just after 11. Not the most fun way to spend a Saturday evening, especially when you can't even kill time on the Internet. But we did get a meal and time in lieu.

  • 02-29-2012 12:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    If I was your boss, I'd appreciate the dedication, but prefer you not to do it again. If you don't have time to do your job, I want to know about it. I also want to know that you're getting adequate rest and relaxation so you can do a good job, and I want to make sure you have a good work-life balance so you're not looking for alternative employment.
     

    On one hand, my managers are like you.  They want to know if I'm overstressed.  They want to make sure I'm averaging a 40-hour week.  I accrue vacation time and they let me (and others in my team) use that time quite liberally.

    On the other hand, they're not like you because they trust that if I'm not mentioning being overworked then I have an appropriate balance.  They ask me every once in a while but otherwise they just leave me alone.  To that end, I've done things at weird times.  I just caused a stir a few weeks ago at one of our campuses by going out there around midnight to install a fiber patch cable. (The campus is close to my house, but unexpectedly my badge wasn't programmed to a new security gate.  I had promised a co-worker I would get it done, and other duties kept me from going out there earlier.  I'd already spent time with my family, my kids were in bed, and my wife was elsewhere.)  When I explained it to my manager, he had no problem with it.  Just tonight, after I got home, I got a text from someone on the Windows server team.  Two connections I'd run for him were shut down and needed to be activated.  I logged in and activated them.  No big deal.  I continued watching TV with my wife and didn't miss a beat.

    I also have the curse that I love technical books and learning more about networks.  My wife only recently got me hooked on a couple of fiction authors.  If it weren't for them I'd have my nose in a technical book most hours of the day.  But the things is, I'm okay with it.  It's what I want.  It's what I enjoy.  I just started looking at the CCIE (currently CCNP certified).  Computers/programming/technology was my hobby as a child and now it's my profession.  So studying work topics (routing, MPLS, network monitoring, to name a few recent topics) in my off-hours is something I enjoy doing as well.  And yet I'm a very involved father, active in my Church, etc.

    It is possible to do what dhromed suggests and not have it be a big deal.  Sometimes a couple of extra hours are just a couple of extra hours.

     

  • 02-29-2012 3:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    I feel very strongly that forty hours a week is an absolute maximum if you want to get the best out of people, and if they go over that repeatedly on an ongoing basis, they're going to need a long holiday at some point fairly soon or they just won't be able to produce their best work.
     

    This goes without saying, IMHO. :)


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-29-2012 3:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Cassidy:

    But I get the impression dhromed put in the extra time because he wanted to, rather than he felt he had to, or was pressured into doing it. He'll have to confirm that. (I'm guessing also it's probably not a practise that dhromed would willingly frequently repeat without some form of recognition)

     

    True and true.

    Of course when I'm requested to put in extra time, I get compensated. I don't actually know how much it is because I rarely do it. :D Probably anywhere between 150-200%.

     


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-29-2012 12:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    The WTF here is that I have a feeling that 'boss' will be in trouble if he tries to take that one further, because

     what he's doing in illegal, and in most states, criminal. Yeah, really.

  • 02-29-2012 12:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

     You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age? It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight. Not unless you happen to be working on something you enjoy.

    Sometimes I wonder how a company with reduced workhours would fare.

  • 02-29-2012 12:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:

     You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age? It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight. Not unless you just so happen to be working on something you enjoy.

    Sometimes I wonder how a company with reduced workhours would fare.

    GO BACK TO FRANCE YOU SOCIALIST! 
  • 02-29-2012 12:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:
    You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age?
    I don't even have my butt-in-seat 35 hours in the average week, I wager. Between coming in late, leaving early, long lunches, mid-day errands...

    Nobody seems to notice or care.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 02-29-2012 1:37 PM In reply to

    • Anketam
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-12-2011
    • Nar Shaddaa
    • Posts 484

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:

     You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age? It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight. Not unless you happen to be working on something you enjoy.

    Sometimes I wonder how a company with reduced workhours would fare.

    Then you have companies like EA that demand insane hours during 'crunch' periods.  In my case there was a few weeks at the start of production that I put in over 50 hours, but it was not a big deal because it was a temporary issue that after only a month I was back down to only slightly above 40.  I really feel sorry for testers since they only get whatever time that development does not overrun into (assuming a fixed schedule), and I have seen where test considered 50 hours just putting in the minimum time in, and some of them were almost at the 60 hour point.  From my own observations I have seen people handle up to 60 hour work weeks, but I have yet to see anyone who can maintain that kind of level without impacting their abilities.

    As far as the creative nature of IT work I totally agree with you.  The last few hours of the day I am unable to do any real creative programming work, I will keep getting stuck on random issues that will eat up time trying to resolve.  Then when I come in the next morning in 5 minutes I will fix the issue from the previous day that I had wasted an hour trying to resolve.  I estimate I can only put in 5 hours of quality programming work.  I use the other 3 hours for mindless activities like meetings.

    Project Manager: I don't know. I'm not allowed to talk directly to the customer. Apparently my grip on reality is too tight.
    - Weng
  • 02-29-2012 1:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:
    You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age?
    What-in-the-fuck? People bitch about the 40 hour week all the time. But with IT? We should have 90 hour weeks. It's not like you losers have anything better to do. If you got more time off you'd just waste it playing video games or something.

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-29-2012 1:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    That's more like a full-time job itself for me.

  • 02-29-2012 1:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Anketam:
    I really feel sorry for testers since they only get whatever time that development does not overrun into (assuming a fixed schedule), and I have seen where test considered 50 hours just putting in the minimum time in, and some of them were almost at the 60 hour point.  From my own observations I have seen people handle up to 60 hour work weeks, but I have yet to see anyone who can maintain that kind of level without impacting their abilities.
    60 hours? You're joking, right? I've worked 90 hour weeks for months on end. Although it was usually for a small start-up where I was the only tech person. And I had considerable equity which made it financially worthwhile. But 60 hours? I could do that without noticing it. Are you guys really such delicate little flowers?

    Anketam:
    The last few hours of the day I am unable to do any real creative programming work, I will keep getting stuck on random issues that will eat up time trying to resolve.  Then when I come in the next morning in 5 minutes I will fix the issue from the previous day that I had wasted an hour trying to resolve.
    Well, yeah, some issues require some time to think on. So switch to some other task and come back later.

    This thread amazes me. I'm not saying I disagree that working less makes sense, so long as you are being compensated for whatever value you bring. But you're complaining about sitting in a chair for 8 hours and doing programming?? It's moderately creative work but it's not like you're making a painting or statue or whatever, you're just pushing around bits. And you lose your wind after 5 hours? Jesus, I guess you've never worked a 12 hour factory shift or a 16 hour shift or whatever. Man, you people are pussies.

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-29-2012 1:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    Anketam:
    Then you have companies like EA that demand insane hours during 'crunch' periods.  In my case there was a few weeks at the start of production that I put in over 50 hours, but it was not a big deal because it was a temporary issue that after only a month I was back down to only slightly above 40.  I really feel sorry for testers since they only get whatever time that development does not overrun into (assuming a fixed schedule), and I have seen where test considered 50 hours just putting in the minimum time in, and some of them were almost at the 60 hour point.  From my own observations I have seen people handle up to 60 hour work weeks, but I have yet to see anyone who can maintain that kind of level without impacting their abilities.
    Epic Games expect 60 hour weeks minimum for most postings.

    Which probably explains the often less-than-great design choices behind much of their engine.
  • 02-29-2012 2:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    DOA:
    You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age?
    What-in-the-fuck? People bitch about the 40 hour week all the time. But with IT? We should have 90 hour weeks. It's not like you losers have anything better to do. If you got more time off you'd just waste it playing video games or something.
     

    Sleep?

    TAKE PILLS, YOU PANSY.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-29-2012 2:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:

    Sleep?

    TAKE PILLS, YOU PANSY.

    Sleep? You can sleep when the rest of us are having sex.

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-29-2012 2:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:
    It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight.
     

    Even more common is the knowledge that you can't be creative for an hour, attend a meeting for two hours, be creative for another hour, attend another two-hour meeting, and then try to be creative again until your eight-hour shift is up.

    Common, that is, among the non-pointy-haired.

  • 02-29-2012 2:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    Jesus, I guess you've never worked a 12 hour factory shift or a 16 hour shift or whatever. Man, you people are pussies.
    I used to work 12 and 16s washing dishes and on the floor at OfficeMax. I consider my current position my due from that. I have "paid my dues" so to speak.

    I'm with you, though, I work with a lot of people who have somehow gotten cushy jobs without ever having worked 1) menial labor, 2) with the public. Those people I hate. That's one of the reasons it pisses me off so much how, say, web developers whine about "how hard" their job is. Or when usability people are "shocked" that someone used their software "wrong".

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 02-29-2012 2:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    I've worked 90 hour weeks for months on end.
     

    Are you guys really such delicate little flowers?

    I think the only reason some people are capable of working 90 hours a week is because:

    A) They're really passionate about the job. I know plenty of artists whose creed might as well be "Sleep? What is it? I must draw!"
    B) or "being disciplined" as a concept is, to them, a fun activity in and of itself, regardless of the actual job.

    I think you're in category B, morbs, because there's absolutely no way someone can be 90-hour passionate about IT. The field is not that difficult, or rich with unexplored, exiting territory.

    I get tired after 8 hours. Or rather, I get tired after a semi-continuous block of 8 hours, with a 20-30 minute lunch break in between. I often regain some energy at night, after having come home and eaten a good meal. I could theoretically work more from 20:00 to 23:00, and add a few hours on weekends.

    But hey.

    Guess what.

    I also have other stuff I want to do with my life.

    You wish to work 90 hours? You love doing the job? You have the mental fortitude to keep it up? That's fine. But don't look down on everyone else for trying to work reasonable hours. With that post above, you're adequately demonstrated that you're the worst possible person to set a norm to.

    As a great example of where I stand: I'm taking music lessons in a few weeks again, and since the timetable of the lessons slightly overlaps with my work hours, I am going to move the work hours.


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-29-2012 2:20 PM In reply to

    • serguey123
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-30-2010
    • Candyland (formely known as Corruptsylvania)
    • Posts 1,824

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    dhromed:

    Sleep?

    TAKE PILLS, YOU PANSY.

    Sleep? You can sleep when the rest of us are having sex.

    Sleeping and having sex are not mutually exclusive

    #100085 +(531)- [X]

    <jome> I suppose there are bad coders, there are really bad coders, there are fucking retards, and there's coders writing lines like this: $resultscode = $resultscode - 0;


  • 02-29-2012 2:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    morbiuswilters:
    dhromed:

    Sleep?

    TAKE PILLS, YOU PANSY.

    Sleep? You can sleep when the rest of us are having sex.
     

    wi... with me?

     


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 02-29-2012 2:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:
    wi... with me?
    Explains the avatar
  • 02-29-2012 2:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    DOA:
     You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age? It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight. Not unless you happen to be working on something you enjoy.
    That's another of my pet annoyances. If I can earn decent money, I'd much rather work only four days a week - 32 hours - and have less money and more free time. Alternatively, if I have to do 40 hours a week, I'd rather do four ten hour days than five eight-hour days. It helps that I generally have plenty of time spent doing things that don't need me anywhere near my best - like waiting for something to finish - which can easily be pushed to the last two hours of each day.

    I've worked one place where we did 4x10, and it was brilliant. Because we avoided rush hour - coming in an hour earlier, leaving an hour later - we saved the best part of an hour a day commuting, so in exchange for spending an extra hour a day at work, we got an extra day off per week. Apart from anything else, you wouldn't believe how much more you get done on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday when you have Wednesday off.

    Oh, and one more thing, which applies to everyone: why the blithering fuck do we all start on the hour? We all know that if you get out of work five or ten minutes early, you get home much quicker because you avoid the peak rush, and the same for coming in a few minutes early. So why not start at 5, 10, 15 minutes before the hour, and finish the same number of minutes early in the evening? Would it make a blind bit of difference to anything? (I know not everyone has fixed hours - but nearly everyone, even in senior, responsible positions, gets frowned at for leaving at 4.55.)

  • 02-29-2012 2:47 PM In reply to

    • lettucemode
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-15-2011
    • Location: confirmed, sending supplies.
    • Posts 223

    Re: Overheard at work

    serguey123:

    Sleeping and having sex are not mutually exclusive

    Apparently there's a disorder known as Sexsomnia, where a person can actually have sex in their sleep and not know anything about it the morning after. I saw it in an episode of House so it must be true.
    May your forehead grow like the mighty oak.
  • 02-29-2012 2:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    That's another of my pet annoyances. If I can earn decent money, I'd much rather work only four days a week - 32 hours - and have less money and more free time. Alternatively, if I have to do 40 hours a week, I'd rather do four ten hour days than five eight-hour days.
    I tried to explain to one of our HR people that they needed to have a "modular" benefits system so I could, for example, trade some of my PTO days for having the free transit pass back. They always claim they're cutting back benefits (like transit) because of budget issue, and I'm saying just give everybody a budget and let them "plug-in" whatever benefits they prefer to meet that budget. Why not?

    The concept was completely alien to her.

    fterfi secure:
    Oh, and one more thing, which applies to everyone: why the blithering fuck do we all start on the hour?
    Who's "everyone"? Get a new job if yours sucks. I definitely don't start at any specific prescribed time. The only guideline at our company is "be available between 10:00-ish and 4:00-ish, or whatever as long as people don't have to reschedule meetings for you".
    fterfi secure:
    We all know that if you get out of work five or ten minutes early, you get home much quicker because you avoid the peak rush, and the same for coming in a few minutes early.
    My bus comes every half hour. I can only assume you're talking about driving here, but in that case the driving "peak rush" occurs over the course of about an hour and a half, so a "few minutes" either way won't make a difference.
    fterfi secure:
    (I know not everyone has fixed hours - but nearly everyone, even in senior, responsible positions, gets frowned at for leaving at 4.55.)
    Then get a job if your job is full of clock-watchers. Where I work, nobody gives a fuck when you come in or when you leave. Hell, they don't even count sick days unless you've taken like 30 of them. You need a job that treats you like an adult.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 02-29-2012 2:50 PM In reply to

    • lettucemode
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-15-2011
    • Location: confirmed, sending supplies.
    • Posts 223

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    DOA:
     You know I've never heard anyone challenge the 40 hour week in that it just might be too long. I mean the 8 hour workday is a byproduct of the industrial age; just how relevant is it in the information age? It's a common secret that in IT at least you can't actually be creative for 8 hours straight. Not unless you happen to be working on something you enjoy.
    That's another of my pet annoyances. If I can earn decent money, I'd much rather work only four days a week - 32 hours - and have less money and more free time. Alternatively, if I have to do 40 hours a week, I'd rather do four ten hour days than five eight-hour days. It helps that I generally have plenty of time spent doing things that don't need me anywhere near my best - like waiting for something to finish - which can easily be pushed to the last two hours of each day.

    My employer has Alternative Work Arrangements which you can sign up for if your position qualifies for it. There a 4/10 work week like you described. There's also 9/80 schedule where you work 9 hours a day Monday through Thursday, and on Fridays you alternate between an 8 hour day and having it off.
    May your forehead grow like the mighty oak.
  • 02-29-2012 2:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:

    morbiuswilters:
    I've worked 90 hour weeks for months on end.
     

    Are you guys really such delicate little flowers?

    I think the only reason some people are capable of working 90 hours a week is because:

    A) They're really passionate about the job. I know plenty of artists whose creed might as well be "Sleep? What is it? I must draw!"
    B) or "being disciplined" as a concept is, to them, a fun activity in and of itself, regardless of the actual job.

    I think you're in category B, morbs, because there's absolutely no way someone can be 90-hour passionate about IT. The field is not that difficult, or rich with unexplored, exiting territory.

    I get tired after 8 hours. Or rather, I get tired after a semi-continuous block of 8 hours, with a 20-30 minute lunch break in between. I often regain some energy at night, after having come home and eaten a good meal. I could theoretically work more from 20:00 to 23:00, and add a few hours on weekends.

    But hey.

    Guess what.

    I also have other stuff I want to do with my life.

    You wish to work 90 hours? You love doing the job? You have the mental fortitude to keep it up? That's fine. But don't look down on everyone else for trying to work reasonable hours. With that post above, you're adequately demonstrated that you're the worst possible person to set a norm to.

    As a great example of where I stand: I'm taking music lessons in a few weeks again, and since the timetable of the lessons slightly overlaps with my work hours, I am going to move the work hours.

    I was going to quote little bits, but really I disagree with that in much more fundamental ways.

    For me, length of time worked isn't a competitive measure of 'dedication' or some bollocks like that. There's a hard limit on how long you can do good work for, simple as that. It varies slightly from person to person, but 40 hours is a maximum amount of work in a week that allows people enough rest to do any of their best work - on an ongoing basis. Sure, I've done over a hundred hours in a week before - I think my record is probably 130+ - but I haven't done it repeatedly. My rule of thumb is that any hours worked over forty require two hours back to rest.

    To me, it doesn't matter if I enjoy the work - in fact, I rarely enjoy things that aren't challenging, but challenging things require a lot more thinking and so are more tiring. If I get home after an easy ten hour day, I can still play a game of chess, but if I get home after doing just a few hours of proper thinking I'll be a zombie.

  • 02-29-2012 2:58 PM In reply to

    • locallunatic
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-19-2010
    • (YourLocation==USA-KY?local:MisleadingUsername)
    • Posts 838

    Re: Overheard at work

    blakeyrat:
    I tried to explain to one of our HR people that they needed to have a "modular" benefits system so I could, for example, trade some of my PTO days for having the free transit pass back. They always claim they're cutting back benefits (like transit) because of budget issue, and I'm saying just give everybody a budget and let them "plug-in" whatever benefits they prefer to meet that budget. Why not?

    That would be a nice setup, though I could see it causing problems with how health insurance is paid for (as employee premiums are only a part of the cost of offering coverage).

    blakeyrat:
    fterfi secure:
    Oh, and one more thing, which applies to everyone: why the blithering fuck do we all start on the hour?
    Who's "everyone"? Get a new job if yours sucks. I definitely don't start at any specific prescribed time. The only guideline at our company is "be available between 10:00-ish and 4:00-ish, or whatever as long as people don't have to reschedule meetings for you".

    Same here, are there actually places that have strict guidlines on that for developers?  And if so how do they keep people?

  • 02-29-2012 3:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    blakeyrat:
    fterfi secure:
    Oh, and one more thing, which applies to everyone: why the blithering fuck do we all start on the hour?
    Who's "everyone"? Get a new job if yours sucks. I definitely don't start at any specific prescribed time.
    Oh, well done. There hasn't been enough one-black-swan pedantic dickweedery around here lately.
    blakeyrat:
    My bus comes every half hour. I can only assume you're talking about driving here
    No, I'm just assuming that you're not one of the unfortunate 5% of the world's population who live in the USA and therefore have no public transport to speak of, or that you drive to work. You're, what, one of the three people in the USA who doesn't drive to work - including the POTUS? Congratulations, have another black-swan award.
    blakeyrat:
    Then get a job if your job is full of clock-watchers.
    These days, it's not an issue for me. It only affects 99% of other workers, though, so that's no reason to mention it.
  • 02-29-2012 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    dhromed:
    I think you're in category B, morbs, because there's absolutely no way someone can be 90-hour passionate about IT. The field is not that difficult, or rich with unexplored, exiting territory.
    If there's enough money in it, I'll be passionate about any damn thing you want.

    dhromed:
    I get tired after 8 hours. Or rather, I get tired after a semi-continuous block of 8 hours, with a 20-30 minute lunch break in between. I often regain some energy at night, after having come home and eaten a good meal. I could theoretically work more from 20:00 to 23:00, and add a few hours on weekends.
    I usually get bored after 6 hours straight, so I break it up into little pieces. Then again, I'm perfectly fine with 3 hours of sleep a night, so there's plenty of time to squeeze out 90 hours in 6-hour increments.

    dhromed:
    But don't look down on everyone else for trying to work reasonable hours.
    I don't look down on anyone for wanting to work less or for having a life outside work. Both are great. In fact, the only reason I worked 90 hour weeks is so I'd make a lot of money and be able to work less in the future. But I just find it amazing that people think 40 hours is tiring or "too much". I mean, if you have kids, sure, but if not..?

    Let the healing begin!

  • I may not agree with everything Morbs just said, but he expresses himself in a way that is dignified, respectful, polite and non-threatening!
  • 02-29-2012 3:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Overheard at work

    fterfi secure:
    Oh, well done. There hasn't been enough one-black-swan pedantic dickweedery around here lately.
    Wow. If there's anybody on this board who's not a pedantic dickweed it's me.

    I made that reply not because I was pedantically reading "everybody" as meaning literally "everybody", but because I was asserting that you're wrong. Most companies, especially the type of companies people posting here work at, are not full of clock-watchers. Even when I was working retail, coming and leaving 5 minutes early was no big deal-- the timeclock was electronic, and the schedule wasn't so exactingly precise that 5 minutes made a difference either way.

    fterfi secure:
    No, I'm just assuming that you're not one of the unfortunate 5% of the world's population who live in the USA and therefore have no public transport to speak of,
    I do live in the US. My public transportation is fine.
    fterfi secure:
    You're, what, one of the three people in the USA who doesn't drive to work - including the POTUS? Congratulations, have another black-swan award.
    When you say "USA", are you referring to "hicksville, deep south?" Tons of the USA has effective, popular mass transit. (And lots of it doesn't.) That's why I hate when people shove stereotype "USA" as a single entity-- each State is different. Hell, even within my State, the western half has effective mass transit while the eastern half doesn't, so even by State you're casting too wide a net.

    The POTUS is driven because the Secret Service demands it. He doesn't get a choice.

    fterfi secure:
    These days, it's not an issue for me. It only affects 99% of other workers, though, so that's no reason to mention it.
    Yeah. I don't believe your numbers are anywhere near correct.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
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