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OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

Last post 11-29-2010 9:06 AM by bjolling. 64 replies.
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  • 11-17-2010 5:25 PM

    OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    I just decided to do a software update on my iMac and hit the "Check for updates" item in the Apple menu. While the system went out to find what updates were needed I started reading some web pages. Eventually the update process reported back that I needed to reboot my Mac in order to install the updates. As I still had a couple of interesting articles to read I ignored the update process and kept on reading.

    Just as I flicked onto a new web page a veil or darkness slowly lowed on the screen from top to bottom - taking about 2 or 3 seconds to complete the process. It sort of made the screen look like when the power management has kicked in and reduced the screen brightness but before the screen was turned off. Initially I had thought that I had encountered some sort of obnoxious full screen advert, but then a panel popped up saying that I *had* to reboot my computer, and gave instructions about how I should hold down the power button until the machine turned off and then hit the power button to turn it on again. This message was repeated in 4 or 5 languages.

    But here is the kicker (actually the first of two kickers) this reboot demand had locked out both my keyboard and mouse - I couldn't even move the mouse pointer! I now had no control of my computer and the only way to get it back was to go through with the demanded reboot. But fuck you Apple. I had another account open on that machine and I had no way to switch to it to ensure things were shutdown nicely before a reboot, let alone do the same for the account whose desktop I was on. So all that was left for me to do was to reboot the computer as asked.

    So the computer comes up, and I checked iTunes and see that it is still version 9. WTF?!??!!?! Part of the update was to install iTunes 10.1 (along with a Java update an XCode update and another update), yet here I am after a forced reboot and still no updated software. So its off to the races (again) to check for updates, and the same set of updates comes back. This time I immediately tell OS-X to do the installation and have been typing this rant from my XP system while I watched the installation process.

  • 11-17-2010 6:14 PM In reply to

    • Zemm
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    • Gold Coast, Australia
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    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    OzPeter:
    It sort of made the screen look like when the power management has kicked in and reduced the screen brightness but before the screen was turned off. Initially I had thought that I had encountered some sort of obnoxious full screen advert, but then a panel popped up saying that I *had* to reboot my computer, and gave instructions about how I should hold down the power button until the machine turned off and then hit the power button to turn it on again. This message was repeated in 4 or 5 languages.
     

    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?

    Filed Under: Can you think of something that talks, other than a person?
  • 11-17-2010 6:29 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    Zemm:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?
    Yes, his Mac kernel-panicked, aka CRASHED. Mug award!
  • 11-17-2010 6:29 PM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    Zemm:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?
    Sounds more like Windows Update that insists on rebooting after auto-updates if you don't acknowledge the "Reboot now/later?" dialog. Even after you've told it to stop fucking doing it.
  • Parp!
  • 11-17-2010 6:38 PM In reply to

    • Zemm
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-26-2007
    • Gold Coast, Australia
    • Posts 1,380

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    Zemm:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?
    Sounds more like Windows Update that insists on rebooting after auto-updates if you don't acknowledge the "Reboot now/later?" dialog. Even after you've told it to stop fucking doing it.
     

    If you read the story, the updates weren't applied, which suggests that it didn't finish installing them properly before it crashed. I've seen the "hold down your power button to reboot your Mac" screen a few times - but pretty much only on a Hackintosh, or the boss's MacBookPro after he had dropped it.

    Filed Under: Can you think of something that talks, other than a person?
  • 11-17-2010 6:41 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    elgate:
    Zemm:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?
    Yes, his Mac kernel-panicked, aka CRASHED. Mug award!
    OK .. I'll accept the mug. But this is the first time I have ever seen one in over 3 1/2 years of continual usage on this Mac. No wonder I didn't recognize it when I saw it.
  • 11-17-2010 6:41 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    OzPeter:
    It sort of made the screen look like when the power management has kicked in and reduced the screen brightness but before the screen was turned off. Initially I had thought that I had encountered some sort of obnoxious full screen advert, but then a panel popped up saying that I *had* to reboot my computer, and gave instructions about how I should hold down the power button until the machine turned off and then hit the power button to turn it on again. This message was repeated in 4 or 5 languages.
    Kernel panic!

    My old iBook did that when its video card was dying.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-17-2010 6:42 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    OzPeter:
    elgate:
    Zemm:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?
    Yes, his Mac kernel-panicked, aka CRASHED. Mug award!
    OK .. I'll accept the mug (if that was indeed a kernel panic - but there was no mention of a crash) but this is the first time I have ever seen one in over 3 1/2 years of continual usage on this Mac. No wonder I didn't recognize it when I saw it.
    Like a BSOD, it's really only caused by bad hardware and/or drivers. Since Apple has a nut-crushingly strong grip on both, it's no wonder it doesn't pop up often.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-17-2010 6:50 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    As I mentioned that in 3 1/2 years this was the first time that I had seen a kernel panic. In addition it all seemed so controlled and polite that it was the total opposite of a BSOD (of which I am *very* familiar) where everything goes boom. So I suppose I better apologize to Apple and go out and buy an iPad or something so I can have something to use this app on
  • 11-17-2010 6:57 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    OzPeter:
    As I mentioned that in 3 1/2 years this was the first time that I had seen a kernel panic. In addition it all seemed so controlled and polite that it was the total opposite of a BSOD (of which I am *very* familiar) where everything goes boom.
    When's the last time you saw a BSOD? The computer just reboots (admittedly with no warning) on XP and up. The BSOD screen is available by tweaking an advanced option, but since MS finally realized it's utterly useless to 99.99% of users, they just shove that information into the system's event viewer and reboot for you. (Since reboot is your only practical option at that point.)

    OS X, instead of just rebooting for you, gives you an information-less screen then asks you to manually reboot. Which is... goofy. But, again, since they control the drivers, it doesn't come up enough to really worry about anyway.

    Given that, realistically, your only option is to reboot, I like the MS way better. At least it's slightly quicker at getting you back to a working desktop.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-17-2010 7:05 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    OzPeter:
    As I mentioned that in 3 1/2 years this was the first time that I had seen a kernel panic. In addition it all seemed so controlled and polite that it was the total opposite of a BSOD (of which I am *very* familiar) where everything goes boom.
    When's the last time you saw a BSOD?
    I suppose I am probably saying BSOD when I really mean instant reboot. But it all amounts to the same thing to me. But I do see BSOD all the time in XP systems under VMware - which annoys the hell out of me as I am not using strange drivers under VMWare except for the VMware tools. I get the feeling that they increase in frequency after updating XP but before VMware workstation has had a new release. I have BSOD'd my main XP system a once or twice in the last year, so it still is possible. Again I am not using strange hardware or drivers.
  • 11-17-2010 8:17 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    Sounds more like Windows Update that insists on rebooting after auto-updates if you don't acknowledge the "Reboot now/later?" dialog. Even after you've told it to stop fucking doing it.
     

    I particularly like this part of the instructions for preventing your computer from rebooting after a Windows update:

    "If it doesn’t already exist, create the DWord value “NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers”. Set it to 0 if you want Windows to automatically restart, or 1 to prevent automatic restart. Then exit and reboot your computer."

    You even have to reboot just to tell Windows to stop rebooting.

     

  • 11-17-2010 9:31 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    El_Heffe:

    PJH:
    Sounds more like Windows Update that insists on rebooting after auto-updates if you don't acknowledge the "Reboot now/later?" dialog. Even after you've told it to stop fucking doing it.
     

    I particularly like this part of the instructions for preventing your computer from rebooting after a Windows update:

    "If it doesn’t already exist, create the DWord value “NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers”. Set it to 0 if you want Windows to automatically restart, or 1 to prevent automatic restart. Then exit and reboot your computer."

    You even have to reboot just to tell Windows to stop rebooting.

     

    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?

    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 2:11 AM In reply to

    • tdb
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-24-2008
    • Posts 386

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    The computer just reboots (admittedly with no warning) on XP and up. The BSOD screen is available by tweaking an advanced option, but since MS finally realized it's utterly useless to 99.99% of users, they just shove that information into the system's event viewer and reboot for you. (Since reboot is your only practical option at that point.)

    OS X, instead of just rebooting for you, gives you an information-less screen then asks you to manually reboot. Which is... goofy. But, again, since they control the drivers, it doesn't come up enough to really worry about anyway.

    Given that, realistically, your only option is to reboot, I like the MS way better. At least it's slightly quicker at getting you back to a working desktop.

    In fact, I'd prefer to get some kind of screen indicating what happened. Even if the only content amounts to "the operating system crashed, you need to reboot". It might save me the trouble of going through all sorts of hardware stability tests, especially temperature-related. Unfortunately Linux doesn't really show kernel panics when running a graphical environment, but fortunately those aren't all that common, so system freezes or crashes often enough are caused by hardware problems.

    The last time my home computer started getting unexplained crashes, it turned out that one of my memory modules actually was bad. I got it exchanged under warranty, and the system has been stable again since then.

  • 11-18-2010 2:33 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    tdb:
    blakeyrat:
    The computer just reboots (admittedly with no warning) on XP and up. The BSOD screen is available by tweaking an advanced option, but since MS finally realized it's utterly useless to 99.99% of users, they just shove that information into the system's event viewer and reboot for you. (Since reboot is your only practical option at that point.)

    OS X, instead of just rebooting for you, gives you an information-less screen then asks you to manually reboot. Which is... goofy. But, again, since they control the drivers, it doesn't come up enough to really worry about anyway.

    Given that, realistically, your only option is to reboot, I like the MS way better. At least it's slightly quicker at getting you back to a working desktop.

    In fact, I'd prefer to get some kind of screen indicating what happened. Even if the only content amounts to "the operating system crashed, you need to reboot". It might save me the trouble of going through all sorts of hardware stability tests, especially temperature-related. Unfortunately Linux doesn't really show kernel panics when running a graphical environment, but fortunately those aren't all that common, so system freezes or crashes often enough are caused by hardware problems.

    The last time my home computer started getting unexplained crashes, it turned out that one of my memory modules actually was bad. I got it exchanged under warranty, and the system has been stable again since then.

    I always set my computer to wait on the BSOD, the messages can be quite handy in narrowing down the problem.  I will admit though that they're utterly useless to most people.

  • 11-18-2010 3:23 AM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 11-18-2010 6:59 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    When's the last time you saw a BSOD? The computer just reboots (admittedly with no warning) on XP and up.

    Saw it a few times a couple of months ago on Vista. It was a problem with the graphics driver that frequently crashed until eventually I got a BSOD. The problems first appeared when I got a second monitor. At first I thought I could just update my graphics card drivers but the drivers did not want to install, somekind of a weird DLL hell that I couldn't untangle. Finally resolved it by doing a clean install of Windows 7.

  • 11-18-2010 7:27 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.

    There's a very simple solution for that - turn off your computer :) I'm always turning my computer off before I go to sleep (well, unless I want to download something really big overnight, and even then I set uTorrent so that it'll shut down computer as soon as download is finished). And I turn it on again only when I'm back from work. Try it - not only you're greener, but it also solves problems with reboots.

  • 11-18-2010 7:58 AM In reply to

    • Xyro
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • Location location = new EnterpriseLocatorFactory() .newLocator(Locale.US) .getLocationFacade(this, true) .getLocation();
    • Posts 1,715

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    takashipl:
    There's a very simple solution for that - turn off your computer :) I'm always turning my computer off before I go to sleep (well, unless I want to download something really big overnight, and even then I set uTorrent so that it'll shut down computer as soon as download is finished). And I turn it on again only when I'm back from work. Try it - not only you're greener, but it also solves problems with reboots.
    Then what will I use to warm my room during the winter?

    #!/usr/bin/perl

    ($_,@x,@y,$r,$o)=( "Xyro's signature!", 0xe4e10e9d0a4803ea, 0x92b0b7684cda510e,
    0x9d2a504b06a54c04, 0xb04804bca984dc0c, 0xea4889b4dadb1108, 0x90534665a4c79811)
    ;%_=map{$_,1}split//;%_=map{$o++,$_}sort keys%_;@x=map{sprintf'%x',$_}@x;for(@x
    ){$r.=$_{hex$_}for(split//)}$r=~s$Xa$xa$;$_=$r;s;(^|! )(\w+);$1\u\L$2;g;print#!
  • 11-18-2010 7:59 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    takashipl:
    I'm always turning my computer off before I go to sleep. And I turn it on again only when I'm back from work.

    Well, that's what I do with my home PC. But I don't do that with my office computer. It would take too long: wait for it to boot, log in, start Outlook, Skype, Messenger, Visual Studio, SQL Mgmt. Studio, Onenote, web browsers, log into my local server, wait for IIS to start, accept the self-signed certs, log in to the app, etc. Even if I use Opera that remembers your open tabs and set applications to auto-start, it still takes a lot of time.

    It's just easier to leave my compter on.

  • 11-18-2010 8:06 AM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    takashipl:

    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.

    There's a very simple solution for that - turn off your computer :)

    It's a bit difficult to connect to a computer that's turned off.
    takashipl:
    Try it - not only you're greener,
    Oh do fuck off.
    takashipl:
    but it also solves problems with reboots.
    So, technically, does not turning it on at all to begin with. Makes it as usable as well.
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 11-18-2010 8:26 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    takashipl:

    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.

    There's a very simple solution for that - turn off your computer :)

    It's a bit difficult to connect to a computer that's turned off.
    takashipl:
    Try it - not only you're greener,
    Oh do fuck off.
    takashipl:
    but it also solves problems with reboots.
    So, technically, does not turning it on at all to begin with. Makes it as usable as well.
     

    Of course, if you need to connect with your home computer from work, you have a problem. From what I understand, using Linux is not an option either... well, in that case M$ really f*cked you, fill a complaint form and stand in queue.

  • 11-18-2010 8:29 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
     

    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.

  • 11-18-2010 8:42 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    OzPeter:
    OK .. I'll accept the mug (if that was indeed a kernel panic - but there was no mention of a crash) but this is the first time I have ever seen one in over 3 1/2 years of continual usage on this Mac. No wonder I didn't recognize it when I saw it.
    Like a BSOD, it's really only caused by bad hardware and/or drivers. Since Apple has a nut-crushingly strong grip on both, it's no wonder it doesn't pop up often.
     

    For the record, and proper statistics, I've had XP BSOD or crash like that maybe once or twice in the past 7 years, so from my persepctive, "nut-crushing grip" amounts to dick.

     


    In complex analysis, a meromorphic function on an open subset D of the complex plane is a function that is holomorphic on all D except a set of isolated points

  • 11-18-2010 9:35 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    It's a bit difficult to connect to a computer that's turned off.
    Well, there's wake-on-lan, which should be supported by any common PC newer than, say, 10 years. It's slightly tricky to set up (esp. if you're behind a NAT router), but then it works great - I use it in that exact scenario.
  • 11-18-2010 10:12 AM In reply to

    • db2
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-15-2006
    • Posts 348

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    DescentJS:

    I always set my computer to wait on the BSOD, the messages can be quite handy in narrowing down the problem.

    Rarely. You get much better information by feeding the mini-dump into WinDbg. (Though if it's down to flaky hardware, your stack dumps could conceivably be anything.)

  • 11-18-2010 10:15 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.
    Why not? You're not even there; it's a perfect time to reboot. (Of course the Windows doesn't know that, but ... still... WTF is your complaint?)
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 10:19 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    It's a bit difficult to connect to a computer that's turned off.
    ... and what stops you from connecting to a computer that's recently rebooted? I'm trying to figure out what you're doing here that "automatic reboot 5 minutes after I leave my house" is an issue, and, and it's not coming to me.
      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 10:24 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    takashipl:
    not only you're greener

    You seem to be begging the question here.  I don't want to be greener.  I'm a Republican.

     

  • 11-18-2010 10:29 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    frits:

    takashipl:
    not only you're greener

    You seem to be begging the question here.  I don't want to be greener.  I'm a Republican.

     

    Never in my life have I printed out an email, but when I get those emails that say "think of the planet before printing this email" (usually in green text color with that WingDings tree next to it)... ooo man those piss me off, Yosemite Sam style. Varmint!

    Usually they come from the executives who:
    1) Travel by jet 10+ times a year, meaning that they're expending literally an order of magnitude more carbon than I am, and I don't even give a shit*
    2) Have no fucking clue that the trees that make paper are all farmed; not only is paper completely fucking harmless (environment-wise), but it's actually a net positive (fast-growing trees are good carbon sinks)

    There's no quicker way to say, "I'm a hypocrite!" than that stupid email sig.

    *) This, BTW, is one of the reasons I don't give a shit. I know that if I live my life within my means, and don't travel by jet more than once a year or so, I'm basically by default a better environmentalist than pretty much everybody in the US who *calls* themselves an environmentalist.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 10:38 AM In reply to

    • EJ_
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-18-2007
    • Posts 113

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

     Regarding the windows reboot dialog: My favorite way to make it "permanently" stop asking until I'm damn ready is just to move the window off the edge of the screen. Try it. Grab the top-left corner of the window, and drag it to the very bottom right corner of your screen, off beside the clock if you have your windows setup relatively standard. You'll see a pixel or four of it left, but you probably don't move the mouse to that corner and click too often, so it's effectively hidden, and won't auto-reboot your shit. 

  • 11-18-2010 10:48 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    frits:

    takashipl:
    not only you're greener

    You seem to be begging the question here.  I don't want to be greener.  I'm a Republican.

    Never in my life have I printed out an email, but when I get those emails that say "think of the planet before printing this email" (usually in green text color with that WingDings tree next to it)... ooo man those piss me off, Yosemite Sam style. Varmint! 


    I was writing that with sarcasm.. anyway, if one don't give a f*** about being more "green", then maybe lower electricity bill will get to them? I don't like wasting anything - and having computer turned on all day long and drawing my precious killowat hours is a big waste! I'm also turning off my power strip when i don't use computer (with computer, screen, router etc connected) to save energy - they all draw not more than 50-70watts, but if they'd work 24h/365 days that would cost some real money.

  • 11-18-2010 10:49 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    2) Have no fucking clue that the trees that make paper are all farmed; not only is paper completely fucking harmless (environment-wise), but it's actually a net positive (fast-growing trees are good carbon sinks)

    Not all trees that are turned into paper are from farmed plantations. Generally only softwoods are farmed because of their quick growing cycle. Hardwoods take a lot longer to grow and produce a different type/quality of fibre than a softwood. When I last worked in the paper industry(*) we were running about 50/50 mix of farmed softwood vs old growth hardwood.

    * As in raw pulp production and paper production that could be smelt a good 30 km away before you arrived at the plant. As well as "don't walk in the puddles because they are bad for your health". Or my favorite (which almost got me canned one day when I related this story to non-paper mill engineers and it got back to my boss) "This (supposedly harmless) liquid waste that we are legally dumping into the environment looks visually bad, but if we dilute it x100 no one will notice it"

  • 11-18-2010 10:55 AM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    takashipl:

    blakeyrat:
    frits:

    takashipl:
    not only you're greener

    You seem to be begging the question here.  I don't want to be greener.  I'm a Republican.

    Never in my life have I printed out an email, but when I get those emails that say "think of the planet before printing this email" (usually in green text color with that WingDings tree next to it)... ooo man those piss me off, Yosemite Sam style. Varmint! 


    I was writing that with sarcasm.. anyway, if one don't give a f*** about being more "green", then maybe lower electricity bill will get to them? I don't like wasting anything - and having computer turned on all day long and drawing my precious killowat hours is a big waste! I'm also turning off my power strip when i don't use computer (with computer, screen, router etc connected) to save energy - they all draw not more than 50-70watts, but if they'd work 24h/365 days that would cost some real money.

    Sorry, but it sounded kinda preachy to me...

    BTW- I actually do turn off my laptop when I'm not using it.  More precisely, I use the hibernate option.  That way I dont have to wait as long to start using my computer after it powers up.  I also turned off automatic updates and just download the updates when I'm ready to deal with reboots.

     

  • 11-18-2010 1:00 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    OzPeter:
    Generally only softwoods are farmed because of their quick growing cycle
     

    Aspen, poplar (true and "yellow") are "hardwood" and pretty fast growing. "Hardwood" being trees with leaves, not hard wood, which aspen and true poplar are not.

  • 11-18-2010 1:49 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

     

    El_Heffe:

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
     

    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.

    Programs only read their configurations when they start up.  How is this a surprise?

  • 11-18-2010 1:49 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    alegr:

    OzPeter:
    Generally only softwoods are farmed because of their quick growing cycle
     

    Aspen, poplar (true and "yellow") are "hardwood" and pretty fast growing. "Hardwood" being trees with leaves, not hard wood, which aspen and true poplar are not.

    Where I come from all trees have leaves, and native hardwoods grow a lot slower than the softwoods
  • 11-18-2010 2:02 PM In reply to

    • Xyro
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-10-2007
    • Location location = new EnterpriseLocatorFactory() .newLocator(Locale.US) .getLocationFacade(this, true) .getLocation();
    • Posts 1,715

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    powerlord:
    El_Heffe:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.
    Programs only read their configurations when they start up.  How is this a surprise?
    For this very reason, every program I write that uses an external configuration has the ability to intercept a signal (like a SIGHUP or a special message on a maintenance socket or whatever) in order to re-read their configuration and dynamically adjust. It takes time and discipline to implement, but it's not that difficult to achieve, and I couldn't tell you how many production headaches have been avoided because of it.  Now, I don't go writing hardware drivers, but I have a hard time justifying the need to reboot a whole OS just to update a security policy or integrate a tool into Explorer. Ultimately, I blame it on developer laziness and a complacent acceptance for low quality software (or low expectations of the software).

    #!/usr/bin/perl

    ($_,@x,@y,$r,$o)=( "Xyro's signature!", 0xe4e10e9d0a4803ea, 0x92b0b7684cda510e,
    0x9d2a504b06a54c04, 0xb04804bca984dc0c, 0xea4889b4dadb1108, 0x90534665a4c79811)
    ;%_=map{$_,1}split//;%_=map{$o++,$_}sort keys%_;@x=map{sprintf'%x',$_}@x;for(@x
    ){$r.=$_{hex$_}for(split//)}$r=~s$Xa$xa$;$_=$r;s;(^|! )(\w+);$1\u\L$2;g;print#!
  • 11-18-2010 2:17 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    powerlord:

     

    El_Heffe:

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
     

    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.

    Programs only read their configurations when they start up.  How is this a surprise?

    Filed under:

    Really?  It makes more sense to reboot the entire operating system rather than just re-read the registry? Seriously?

     

  • 11-18-2010 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    El_Heffe:

    powerlord:

     

    El_Heffe:

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
     

    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.

    Programs only read their configurations when they start up.  How is this a surprise?

    Filed under:

    Really?  It makes more sense to reboot the entire operating system rather than just re-read the registry? Seriously?

     

    For something only one in a krajillion people will ever change? When re-reading the Registry takes a decent amount of time? (Especially on the hardware XP was released for.)

    Yes, seriously. The real WTF is you, for expecting Microsoft to bend over backwards to make the one person in a million who feels the need to (basically) sabotage their update system happy.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 3:05 PM In reply to

    • tdb
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-24-2008
    • Posts 386

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    El_Heffe:

    powerlord:

     

    El_Heffe:

    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
     

    No.  But that is the end result of a poor design that requires a reboot after every little change -- even, ironically, changing a setting that prevents the computer from rebooting unnecessarily.

    Programs only read their configurations when they start up.  How is this a surprise?

    Filed under:

    Really?  It makes more sense to reboot the entire operating system rather than just re-read the registry? Seriously?

     

    For something only one in a krajillion people will ever change? When re-reading the Registry takes a decent amount of time? (Especially on the hardware XP was released for.)

    Yes, seriously. The real WTF is you, for expecting Microsoft to bend over backwards to make the one person in a million who feels the need to (basically) sabotage their update system happy.

    Why would it need to re-read the entire registry? All changes to the registry must go through the OS API, so it should be trivial for the OS to intercept the call that affects this particular key and change its internal variable accordingly before returning control to the process.

  • 11-18-2010 3:10 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    tdb:
    Why would it need to re-read the entire registry? All changes to the registry must go through the OS API, so it should be trivial for the OS to intercept the call that affects this particular key and change its internal variable accordingly before returning control to the process.
    Jesus.

    And it already does that for COMMON, SUPPORTED configuration changes. El Heffe is asking that it do that for an extremely UNCOMMON and UNSUPPORTED configuration change.

    The first time some moron sets this option, then gets a virus because they didn't fucking reboot after updating, he's going to cry to the press "Windows let me change this option! And so it's Microsoft's fault I got a virus!" There's no reason, NO REASON, for Microsoft to make this easy in any way, shape or form. As I said before, this amounts to sabotaging their update process.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 3:25 PM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    Do you people think Windows reboots just to annoy you?
    No. But that's the effect.
    If you don't reboot, you don't get the security update.
    Well obviously, but what I don't want it to do is to arbitrarily decide to reboot my home PC while I'm at work because it applied an update 5 minutes after I left for work.
    Why not?
    Because I typically have numerous applications open. Which I don't want arbitrarily closing.
    blakeyrat:
    You're not even there;
    Irrelevant.
    blakeyrat:
    it's a perfect time to reboot.
    No it isn't. The perfect time to reboot is after a controlled closure of any and all programs I have open, and clicking the "yes, reboot *now*" button. Not when Windows decides that I've ignored it's "Do you want to reboot" dialog for long enough and decides that it'll reboot anyway, closing all programs along the way, regardless of whether, for example, I've remembered to press Ctrl-S.
    blakeyrat:
    WTF is your complaint?
    My complaint is that after being told not to do something, Windows still goes ahead and does it anyway.
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 11-18-2010 3:41 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    Because I typically have numerous applications open. Which I don't want arbitrarily closing.
    That doesn't really address my question. (Which was, how does rebooting 5 minutes after you leave the house affect your ability to log in?) But whatever.

    Let me get this straight:
    1) You don't want Windows to close programs for you
    2) You don't want Windows to automatically reboot your computer
    3) You often keep unsaved changes for a long period of time
    4) But you also don't want to just set Windows to not automatically install updates in the first place?

    Look, Microsoft already solved all your problem: it's called "download updates, but don't install". It's a fucking solved issue. For some strange brain-numbing reason, you don't want to use that solution, instead you just like to bitch and moan when Windows automatically installs updates. This reminds me of the people who spent years and years bitching and moaning about the office assistant, and never spent the 5 seconds it takes to turn the thing off for good. I have no patience for people like you.

    Either use the solution you've been provided, or stop bitching.

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 3:45 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

     At least you know when the updates will happen.  It's called "Patch Tuesday" for a reason.

    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
  • 11-18-2010 3:52 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

     Can we go through a real reboot here?

     Home PC:  Close down whatever programs you're using, saving open files, reboot.  My worst computer ever took about 8 minutes, and was ready to be used again.  Firefox saves tabs.  Most programs start up in less than a minute.

     Work PC:  Updates are shoved down through the network off-hours, computers reboot overnight (even the worst of the worst WILL be up and running by the next day).  

    My point?  You need to reboot.  And in most cases you're talking a few minutes of downtime to keep your OS, which happens to be the most virally assaulted one on the face of the planet, secure.  If you don't want to do that, disable the updates and shut the hell up.  Note:  This forfiets your right to bitch later about getting a virus. ;)

    Unrelated; when did this turn into slashdot?  And for that matter, when did desktop linux become a viable alternative to Windows?

    All the technology and software in the universe is just as useless when the end user has the IQ of a sack of hammers.
    - Me
  • 11-18-2010 3:53 PM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    instead you just like to bitch and moan when Windows automatically installs updates.
    That is not what I'm complaining about. Take your own advice else-thread and read the thread, instead of answering what you think other people have said, and getting it all arse-about-tit. And wrong.

    1) Windows is perfectly capable of installing most updates without rebooting.

    2) I'd rather gracefully close programs myself, on the few occasions Windows does require rebooting for an update, rather that Windows deciding it knows better than me when the best time to reboot will be.

    3) Following various plausible methods for telling Window's that "no, it actually doesn't know the best time to reboot," work for a time; then Windows decides to ignore the request to stop rebooting when it feels like it, and reboots when it feels like it after an update.
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 11-18-2010 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    PJH:
    blakeyrat:
    instead you just like to bitch and moan when Windows automatically installs updates.
    That is not what I'm complaining about. Take your own advice else-thread and read the thread, instead of answering what you think other people have said, and getting it all arse-about-tit. And wrong.
    Maybe you could point me in the right direction. I re-read all of your posts, and I don't see anything in them that changes what I just posted. Hell, in the first one, you *specifically said* you had auto-updates on. So if I'm wrong, you're going to have to spell it out in a bit more detail.

    What does "arse-about-tit" mean/imply?

      <-  I couldn't make my shit work, so here's a Godzilla head.
  • 11-18-2010 4:03 PM In reply to

    • PJH
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Newcastle, UK
    • Posts 3,913

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    blakeyrat:
    So if I'm wrong, you're going to have to spell it out in a bit more detail.
    Post edited while you were replying.
    "Because you watched 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar,' we recommend 'The Human Centipede.'"
    --
    UED - Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan
  • Parp!
  • 11-18-2010 4:08 PM In reply to

    Re: OS-X Update WTF?!?!?!?

    Xyro:
    For this very reason, every program I write that uses an external configuration has the ability to intercept a signal (like a SIGHUP or a special message on a maintenance socket or whatever) in order to re-read their configuration and dynamically adjust.

    Hrm, that's actually a cool idea and in server environments even a great idea. Filed for future reference.

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